FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
And a great many of those statues were put up during the 1950s. Just ask yourself why?
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The Confederacy was created to continue and expand slavery, which was under political and moral attack from the drafting of the Constitution. Indeed, the only way to have avoided secession would have been for all the states to have abolished slavery to have reinstate it and to suppress the First Amendment rights of abolitionists.
After losing the War to Continue Slavery, the very first thing many of those memorialized confederates did was to start and support terrorist campaigns to ensure Black citizens were denied the rights that came with emancipation. Those statues were largely erected to memorialize those generals post-war work to maintain white supremacy, not their actions in the Civil War.
I'm not sure I understand the linkage to this issue...I worked with a Welding engineer in Scotland who had two cats called "weekdays" and "weekends" as a joke about his physical relationship with them. Thank god he wasn't a war hero and one got run over on his most famous mission.
I'm not sure I understand the linkage to this issue...
Well then allow me to explain. Guy Gibson was a young man, in a war. before the dambusters raid he will have lost many friends during training and operations. On operation Chastise there were 53 people that he knew personally that died. He died himself on operations in September 1944 at the age of 26 (16 months later). I doubt he thought much more of life than living the next day and yet people are looking for all sorts of meanings and symbolism for the name of his dog. IT WAS A DOG, a black dog. I call my daughters dog all sorts of names, it is a stupid dog that only cares about food, it isn't some great sermon or touchstone for society. He was a young man facing death almost daily, not a writer of opinion columns in the woke press. A few years ago the only people known from the dambusters raid were Barnes Wallace, Guy Gibson and the dog. In 50 years time the only thing known about the mission will be the dogs name.I'm not sure I understand the linkage to this issue...
First, I am curious as to why you would giggle when they mentioned the dog's name in the movie. Was the mention of the name, in the context of the scene in the movie, intended to be comedic? Or were you giggling at hearing a bad word out loud? I know that made me giggle when I was young.I remember seeing the movie (The Dam Busters) about Gibson and his mission as a little kid, and me and my brother giggling when they mentioned the dog's name. I also remember that Roger Waters included audio from the film in the background of the The Wall, specifically the part where a character uses the dog's name to explain that the dog was run over by a car. I guess Roger Waters now has to denounce himself and his music as racist. After all, it was in 1980. and not 1955 when the movie was made.
My reading of the Emancipation Proclamation is different than yours as it seems to include all States in the second paragraph.
It was always vital to establish whether the people who we sent out in aeroplanes to drop high explosives on German, French and Italian citizens were "racist" by some daft 2020 concept. Burning people alive in a firestorm is OK as a military tactic but lets have a really thorough check on the names of the pilots pets in case any offense is triggered? A dogs name is now more important than human life. I hope it was a male dog (that is a dog) otherwise we are really going to upset sex workers who self identify as female.I don't think that Guy Gibson, the filmmakers of The Dam Busters or Roger Waters are racist. But I think the choice of the dog's name was inappropriate even though it was societally acceptable at the time. And it was more acceptable in the 1980's than it is now, but no less inappropriate.
It was always vital to establish whether the people who we sent out in aeroplanes to drop high explosives on German, French and Italian citizens were "racist" by some daft 2020 concept. Burning people alive in a firestorm is OK as a military tactic but lets have a really thorough check on the names of the pilots pets in case any offense is triggered? A dogs name is now more important than human life. I hope it was a male dog (that is a dog) otherwise we are really going to upset sex workers who self identify as female.
First, I am curious as to why you would giggle when they mentioned the dog's name in the movie. Was the mention of the name, in the context of the scene in the movie, intended to be comedic? Or were you giggling at hearing a bad word out loud? I know that made me giggle when I was young.
Second, I wonder if Roger Waters would make the same decision to include that audio today?
I don't think that Guy Gibson, the filmmakers of The Dam Busters or Roger Waters are racist. But I think the choice of the dog's name was inappropriate even though it was societally acceptable at the time. And it was more acceptable in the 1980's than it is now, but no less inappropriate.
Also, I note that nowhere in your text do you use the actual name of the dog...
Regards,
Kim
GrauGeist and pgeno71,I have to agree with GrauGeist, the text of paragraph two specifically identified states, parts of states and people "in rebellion against the United States." The fact that he did not abolish the institution everywhere was a source of criticism from the abolitionist wing of the Republican Party.
pgeno71,Well, I giggled because I was seven or eight years old and thought it funny that they used a bad word on TV. As for Waters, I guess I don't know which usage is racist and which is just inappropriate because a professor was fired from his job for discussing the term in an academic setting. So, I don't get it. I guess I'm not good material for the culture police, and that's fine with me. As for not using the word in my posts, I usually do not intend to offend initially, until someone says something that I think deserves it. I don't like to start the fight..
I wonder if Guy Gibson would choose the same name for his dog in 2020?
Kim
pgeno71,
I wonder if Guy Gibson would choose the same name for his dog in 2020?
Regards,
Kim
pgeno71,
As I said, I don't think the usage was racist. However, the name in 2020 is inappropriate and offensive to some. I don't think that removing the dog's headstone reflects on the owner or the dog. It is just a recognition that in this day and age some people find the word offensive and hurtful.
As for the professor, I can't speak to that as I don't know the circumstances. However, I do think that there has to been some latitude in an academic setting. The ideas of safe zones on campuses is ridiculous.
I wonder if Guy Gibson would choose the same name for his dog in 2020?
Not an emoji guy, but.
Regards,
Kim
Pete,I totally agree and he probably would not give his dog the same because the word's usage has changed. The problem I have with removing things is that it does not allow for adult, intellectual conversations about an issue. Let's take the dog's headstone for example. If some one learns a little about Gibson and that he named his dog a certain name, without knowing the context of the naming or the word at the time, they might conclude that, "he was so racist he named his dog that word and equated black people to animals." We both agree that would be unfair to Gibson. Adding a sign or plaque to explain the context of the naming and the word's usage at the time is more educational than removing it. I think taking away the headstone is intellectual laziness. By removing it, we are not erasing history or "fixing" it, were are losing it. We are losing the opportunity to understand and explain the past and present in all its complexity.
Take care,
Pete
I wonder if Guy Gibson would choose the same name for his dog in 2020?
I was thinking that Guy Gibson would be the same age in 2020 as he was when he actually named the dog...Likely not, as he would be 102. Guy Gibson didn't live long enough to write his autobiography, so his racial beliefs are largely unknown, although his choice of the dog's name would tend to indicate they were not particularly enlightened, even by the norms of the era. I suspect, though, that it was more cluelessness than malice.