No respect, no morals, no trust - welcome to modern Britain

Maestro · Nov 8, 2009

Negative Creep said:
But hey, it's not the kid's fault. They have ADHD, autism and dyslexia so it's the school's fault for not treating them accordingly

Good point... That is something I forgot.

In most schools (at least over here), they put kids with Attention Disorders, Dyslexia or even kids who are clinically retarded in the same class as others. (I remember when I was in Grade 6, my elementary school's principal decided to put a trisomic student in a regular class because his parents didn't want to send him in a specialized school. If I remember well, he was in Grade 2. But how did you want kids to study in class when there is a clinically retarded kid sitting next to them, doing some weird things ?)

And teachers no longer give a sh*t about what is going on in their class as long as nobody disturb the "class". That's why teachers keep requesting that some children be sent to school under heavy medication. Because a class of stoned students is easier to handle. And who cares if the kids graduate or not ? Schools have stopped distinguishing winners from losers anyway.

Where is the society going ? Oh, yes... Straight in the wall.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 9, 2009

Negative Creep said:
But hey, it's not the kid's fault. They have ADHD, autism and dyslexia so it's the school's fault for not treating them accordingly

I am not so sure about the ADHD thing. Don't take me wrong, I am sure there are real circumstances of this, but I think that many of the ADHD diagnoses are false. I think that schools and parents just want to take the easy way out and not get to the root of the problem.

It is much easier to call a kid ADHD and put him on drugs.

Lucky13 · Nov 9, 2009

One word fellas, NED's!

Who hasn't heard about those f*ckers?

Clay_Allison · Nov 9, 2009

I'm about as much on the front lines of this as anyone. I'm a high school teacher, and considering what I have to put up with from this generation, I'm not interested in teaching the next one.

Colin1 · Nov 9, 2009

Clay_Allison said:
I'm about as much on the front lines of this as anyone. I'm a high school teacher, and considering what I have to put up with from this generation, I'm not interested in teaching the next one.

You have my sincere sympathy
time was when you crossed the school gates, the teachers were the law. They needed to be - I know what my friends and I were like. Not our fault I hasten to add, kids are kids after all but at least the teachers had the powers to bring us into line.
I don't know why they think modern kids should/would be any different, teachers have been stripped/denied of that in loco parentis element of their duties and kids, esp the ones from the increasing numbers of dysfunctional homes, quickly cotton on to that; instead of laying down the law, they are now fighting a pitched battle (literally, in an increasing number of cases) and they're having to do it with their hands tied behind their backs.

If kids are our future, we're destroying the fabric of our society at grass roots level.

Clay_Allison · Nov 9, 2009

Colin1 said:
You have my sincere sympathy
time was when you crossed the school gates, the teachers were the law. They needed to be - I know what my friends and I were like. Not our fault I hasten to add, kids are kids after all but at least the teachers had the powers to bring us into line.
I don't know why they think modern kids should/would be any different, teachers have been stripped/denied of that in loco parentis element of their duties and kids, esp the ones from the increasing numbers of dysfunctional homes, quickly cotton on to that; instead of laying down the law, they are now fighting a pitched battle (literally, in an increasing number of cases) and they're having to do it with their hands tied behind their backs.

If kids are our future, we're destroying the fabric of our society at grass roots level.

Guys like Maestro call our profession stupid and lazy while kids don't have to show any respect in the classroom. We're here to teach, not parent or babysit. The reason that the teaching profession is declining in quality is the extent to which the best teachers are being run out of the profession. I'm getting sick of it myself. Giving special effort to try to get one kid turned around is nothing like being stuck in a room with 30 criminals and being told to make them learn when they won't do their work and pay a moment's attention.

Are there bad teachers? Sure. Is there a line of great teachers out in front of the school ready to replace them? No. I wonder why that might be.

Colin1 · Nov 9, 2009

Clay_Allison said:
We're here to teach, not parent or babysit

Yes, sure
I hope you didn't misunderstand my point, I was merely saying that, in the school-hours absence of the real parents, the teacher was the adult who supervised your activities and your behaviour. These days, they seem to be expected to conduct the former without being offered any means to control the latter.

Ferdinand Foch · Nov 9, 2009

Well, as you guys have said, this problem is everywhere, even in Lyndonville, Vermont. I remember last year where I would ended about a half-dozen empy 30 packs of bud and coors light in the damn parking lot. Sometimes I would have to park next to that crap. H@ll, we even had a guy last year take a p@ss on the stairs in one of the Freshmen dorms (too D@mn drunk). Then later he left a note on it saying "oh yeah there's p@ss right here, no big deal." Didn't even bother cleaning it up, he probably figured that the cleaning ladies would take care of it, which I don't think they did for a while (not that I can blame them).

I'm really worried about my generation. It's just going to be excuse after excuse for a good chunk of them. Looking back on it all, I'm kinda happy that my mom and dad put the fear of god into Vassili and I. That's what we need more from parents, not sending all the kids to a counselor, and have them say that they are just expressing themselves.

Clay_Allison · Nov 9, 2009

Colin1 said:
Yes, sure
I hope you didn't misunderstand my point, I was merely saying that, in the school-hours absence of the real parents, the teacher was the adult who supervised your activities and your behaviour. These days, they seem to be expected to conduct the former without being offered any means to control the latter.

I was reacting to Maestro's teacher bashing there, not you. You are entirely correct.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 9, 2009

Clay_Allison said:
Guys like Maestro call our profession stupid and lazy while kids don't have to show any respect in the classroom. We're here to teach, not parent or babysit. The reason that the teaching profession is declining in quality is the extent to which the best teachers are being run out of the profession. I'm getting sick of it myself. Giving special effort to try to get one kid turned around is nothing like being stuck in a room with 30 criminals and being told to make them learn when they won't do their work and pay a moment's attention.

Are there bad teachers? Sure. Is there a line of great teachers out in front of the school ready to replace them? No. I wonder why that might be.

If it is any consolation, I believe that teachers are a very underpaid and a thankless profession. When I was in the military I thought about doing the soldiers to teachers program, but the things that you describe above are what changed my mind.

109ROAMING · Nov 9, 2009

Ferdinand Foch said:
I'm really worried about my generation. It's just going to be excuse after excuse for a good chunk of them.

With ya on the worried part , will only add I'm quite embarrassed

Amsel · Nov 9, 2009

I have noticed a decline in the quality of applicants to my industry. The young guys coming in want all the money and perks but cannot show up and work a full day hardly, and the constant cell phone usage pisses me off. These guys coming in are very unprepared for the workforce.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 9, 2009

I actually know this kid, he is 18 and just graduated High School. He thought Ben Franklin was a President of the United States, could not tell me one thing that Einstein was famous for, thought that Thomas Edison helped invent the automobile and does not know where to find South Africa on a map (no joking here...).

I am serious about this. I could go on and on and on. I ask him several easy questions every day, he does not know any of them...

Vassili Zaitzev · Nov 9, 2009

Clay, I understand what your facing. My mom is a teacher also, elementary level. She's had a few little sh!ts and their idiot parents.

Maestro · Nov 10, 2009

Clay_Allison said:
Guys like Maestro call our profession stupid and lazy while kids don't have to show any respect in the classroom. We're here to teach, not parent or babysit. The reason that the teaching profession is declining in quality is the extent to which the best teachers are being run out of the profession. I'm getting sick of it myself. Giving special effort to try to get one kid turned around is nothing like being stuck in a room with 30 criminals and being told to make them learn when they won't do their work and pay a moment's attention.

Woah... Wait a minute, I never said YOU were lazy, and I never said teachers (in general) are stupid. The situation in the US is a tad different. I was speaking for my own Province.

You know, teachers here are directly employed by the gouvernment (except for private schools, which aren't concerned by my statement), making it a perfect spot for lazy and boring state employees.

So, while good teachers are going to work for private schools, we end up (with a few exceptions) with the crap of the bunch.

Many cases were reported in the past about teachers/principals (in public schools) giving the following choice to parents : either you put your kids under medication, or you find an other school for him/her.

They're forcing them to sit at a desk for 40 hours a week for 9 or 10 months and they expect them to sit there still while you've got a boring teacher in the class who is too lazy to find a way to get the kids interrested ?

Teachers are stupid ? No.
Teachers are lazy ? For the most part, yes.
Teachers are boring ? For the most part, yes.
Teachers have a strong union preventing them for being kicked out of the school if they are just incompetent ? Yes.

Don't get me wrong, it is not only the fault of the school. Both sides have their share in this. With my last post, I just wanted to make a correction to my previous post, not just blame the teachers.

**EDIT** Here is the post I was aiming with my last post.

Maestro said:
I think the real source of that problem is education of kids...

I mean, there have been good and bad parents since our hairy ancestors came down of their trees millions of years ago. However, there have been a "who gives a f*ck ?" mentallity that started to grow in the majority of human minds in the late 60s.

This is due mainly to the government and public schools. The government told the parents that they would now take care of the kids' education. Leading them to "give up" their parenting to schools and teachers with a strong union who couldn't care less about what and how the kids learn since they're gonna get their paycheck anyway.

Add this to the more recent "pimp culture" that grew up in the 90s, and you've got stoned/boozed/retarded teens acting like douchebags... and female teens acting like whores because there was no one to teach them how to act in the society.

But it is only my opinion... I could be wrong.

Emac44 · Nov 10, 2009

syscom3 said:
Good to see Emac44 is still with us, I haven't seen a post by him in quite some time.

One of my neighbors are both teachers and they have told me time and time again, that the fear of lawsuits against them (or the school district) and the abuse by parents who have an attitude of "my kids s*** doesn't stink" has greatly limited their school districts ability to discipline unruly and rude students. And this is the same across the country. They would love to begin attitude adjustment methods on their stuednts, [no, not physical abuse] but they cant.

Not all is lost with civility though ..... this past Hallowean, plenty of "thank you's" were heard at our door.

Syscom. Sorry about my absence. But been busy. I also fell in with a number of Conservative Americans and Australians who spend time talking about Conservative Politics

And also raising a 8 yr old plus work family etc etc

Njaco · Nov 10, 2009

Maestro said:
Not true.

I don't believe in God, Allah, Buddah or whatever the hell you call him. If there really was a God there wouldn't be so much sh*t on Earth. (While most of this said sh*t is created by believers having a "my god is better than yours" syndroma.) So it is not linked to faith, but education.

Why did I never break the law ? Because I feared prison... More particullarly prisons' shower room. Everyone knows what happens in there, so I won't draw you a picture.

No honestly, the idea of being put in jail really scared (and is still scaring) the sh*t out of me. But now, with the pimp culture, going to jail is saw as being cool. Add this to the YouTube syndroma (peoples doing crazy things and posting them online just to get their 15 secounds of fame), and you get the perfect storm.

So, as I always said, education is the key... Not faith.

Maestro, don't get me wrong. To me its not as simple as "What do you believe in?" It goes much deeper. And its personnal. Faith is personnal whether its in a higher power or in the power of the earth/nature or whatever. Maybe I'm talking about setting a foundation, something that will hold you for all your life.

An example:

I was a singer in semi-famous rock bands around the East coast. And I was immersed in that culture - drugs, drinking, all that. I am amazed at the situations I have been in and walked out without a scratch. I'm no drug addict and never have been. I was a heavy drinker until I decided to just stop.

Why? and how did I do that when I saw numerous friends who couldn't stop sticking that needle in their arm or crack open that whiskey bottle?

Because I had a foundation within me that allowed me to make decisions and the courage in the face of friends and others to stand my ground. I don't care if it was a christian belief, or jewish or muslim or athesist. It was something that gave me a foundation.

and that is what kids are missing. Yeah its the parents. But that is what the parents aren't giving the kids. A solid core.

and now I'm rambling and not making sense.

Amsel · Nov 10, 2009

There was an incident the other day here in Texas where a father just coming back into his neighborhood after taking his son fishing told some teenagers who were speeding down the residential street to slow down. The 16 year olds took a framing hammer to the man and beat him to death in front of his son. This story is horrific because it could happen to any of us.

Five Teens Arrested In Beating Death Of 28-Year-Old Texas Man

ToughOmbre · Nov 10, 2009

Njaco said:
Maestro, don't get me wrong. To me its not as simple as "What do you believe in?" It goes much deeper. And its personnal. Faith is personnal whether its in a higher power or in the power of the earth/nature or whatever. Maybe I'm talking about setting a foundation, something that will hold you for all your life.

An example:

I was a singer in semi-famous rock bands around the East coast. And I was immersed in that culture - drugs, drinking, all that. I am amazed at the situations I have been in and walked out without a scratch. I'm no drug addict and never have been. I was a heavy drinker until I decided to just stop.

Why? and how did I do that when I saw numerous friends who couldn't stop sticking that needle in their arm or crack open that whiskey bottle?

Because I had a foundation within me that allowed me to make decisions and the courage in the face of friends and others to stand my ground. I don't care if it was a christian belief, or jewish or muslim or athesist. It was something that gave me a foundation.

and that is what kids are missing. Yeah its the parents. But that is what the parents aren't giving the kids. A solid core.

and now I'm rambling and not making sense.

You ARE making sense Chris. I'm with you!

TO

Messy1 · Nov 10, 2009

Maybe it is my old age starting to show up, but everyday I am amazed at what parents let their little girls wear around and go to school in. Also noticed while shopping for my sons first Halloween costume, how many young girls costumes were a little too lacking in material, and way, way too mature for anyone under 18 to be wearing. I saw nurses costumes, Little Red Rising Hood costumes, princess costumes that were all way to sexy looking for a young girl to be wearing. Fishnet stockings, short skirts, etc. We were shocked. Stuff such as this, young girls wearing suggestive clothing they have no business wearing is part of the problem. Parents allowing this should have their heads examined. Parents who allow this type of thing IMO are setting a dangerous example to their kids. Good taste and decency are out the window way too often, it is hard to teach a child about decency and self respect, when they are letting them, or dressing these young kids like this. I think things like this are partly to blame for all the teenage pregnancies you seem to see now a days. Kids have to be taught morals, self respect, the difference between right and wrong, etc. Otherwise all we will have is idiots raising more idiots with no end in sight.

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