No respect, no morals, no trust - welcome to modern Britain

Discussion in 'OFF-Topic / Misc.' started by Colin1, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    A social comment, rather than political, this piece hit all the right buttons with me
    I would be interested to hear parallel views of the social climate in your part of the world
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    Our political leaders are falling short as we sink under a tide of vulgarity and sleaze

    By Jeff Randall
    The Daily Telegraph Friday 6 November 2009

    Earlier this year, the BBC broadcast a two-part documentary called The Death of Respect. It went out late and would have been missed by many. For those who did not see it, there was compelling evidence this week that the social decomposition chronicled in John Ware's programme is very real, when film of a Sheffield student relieving himself on a war memorial was shown in the same news bulletins that covered the murder of five British soldiers in Helmand.

    It's hard to think of a more offensive image than booze-fuelled urine flowing over poppies, on a day when courageous servicemen are being slaughtered in order, the Government claims, to keep the rest of us safe. Hard, but not impossible. The front-page story from my local newspaper, the Brentwood Gazette, came close: thieves stole the Royal British Legion's Poppy Appeal collection box from St Thomas's church in the town centre. In the week of Remembrance Sunday, low-lifers had plumbed new depths.

    Do not tell me that these are isolated incidents. Anxiety over the collapse of respect in modern Britain is not, as some liberal sociologists would have us believe, the creation of news-hungry tabloids and suburban reactionaries. Examples of guttersnipery are all around: from unpleasant vulgarity (spitting and swearing) to the contempt with which a sleazy political class treats its electorate. We are, one fears, in danger of becoming inured to disrespect.

    On the way to the train station each day, I trudge past a trail of sweet wrappers, sandwich boxes and drink cans, discarded by children walking to school. Every morning they litter the streets, seemingly unaware of the mess piling up, while eating breakfast on the hoof. I once challenged a twerp who was poking an empty crisp packet into a neighbour's hedge. He seemed shocked that anyone would care.

    Litter is annoying but in the grand scheme of a society that has traded personal responsibility for blame transfer, it is a little more than a pointer to a deeper malaise: the corrosion of deference in our schools, the abandonment of manners on our streets and yes, the death of respect for civility and integrity. We are close to the point where ethical behaviour is regarded as an affliction to be pitied, a loser's burden.

    In a piercing summary of what has gone wrong, Britain's Chief Rabbi, Lord Sachs, concludes: "Concepts like duty, obligation, responsibility and honour have come to seem antiquated and irrelevant. Emotions like guilt, shame, contrition and remorse have been deleted from our vocabulary, for are we not all entitled to self-esteem? The still, small voice of conscience is rarely heard these days. Conscience has been outsourced, delegated away."

    Indeed it has. Individual wrongdoings are, increasingly, an issue not for those concerned but for the State, which dishes out rights in return for unquestioning obeisance. In place of self-restraint, we have installed an all-embracing culture of grievance. Culprits have learnt to claim victim status.

    As the banking crisis and MP's expenses scandal revealed, there is barely a distinction between legality and morality. Freedom means pursuing that with which it is possible to get away. If everyone else is gaming the system, only a mug would choose to do otherwise. When caught, the perpetrators point shamelessly to a failure by regulators.

    Soon after becoming PM, Tony Blair offered a fresh start for a modernised Britain. It was an attractive vision. He did not want, he said, his children brought up in a country where gangs of teenagers hung around street corners doing nothing but abusing passers-by. "I tell you: a decent society is not based on rights, it is based on duty - the duty to show respect."

    No quibbles there, except that after 12 years of his New Labour project, the respect to which Mr Blair referred is in the gutter. Teachers who seek to reprimand offensive pupils are attacked by yobbish parents; train drivers who ask unruly gangs to get off are beaten up. A vulnerable mother kills herself and her daughter after years of brutal abuse from thugs. This, I'm afraid, is the reality of contemporary Britain, a sprawling no-respect zone.

    According to a study by the Institute for Public Policy Research, Britain's teenagers are among the most badly behaved in Europe. It paints a picture of adolescents immersed in consumerism, who are drunk more often and involved in more fights than their Continental counterparts.

    The IPPR's explanation for our dismal record is a collapse in family and community life. In Italy, 93% of 15-year olds eat regularly with their parents; in Britain, it is just 64%. We should not be surprised. The British Welfare State rewards unmarried mothers with a level of benefits most would be unable to earn in legal employment. They are incentivised to 'go solo'.

    For Karen Matthews, who colluded in the kidnapping of her own daughter, Shannon, there was no right or wrong, just a perverse cost-benefit analysis. She worked out that having more children with variety of fathers meant a rising tide of cash payments and handouts in kind. In her miserable milieu, self-respect and honour seemed like unaffordable luxuries. The same conclusion must have been reached by a neighbour and close friend who was jailed yesterday for benefits fraud.

    In establishing 40 'respect zones' to fight anti-social behaviour, Mr Blair's Government promised to provide 'parenting classes' and other 'family project'. This was, in part, a response to official figures showing that half of all anit-social behaviour orders (ASBOs) in England and Wales had been breached. What happened to that initiative? One senses little progress.

    Respect, of course, is a two-way process. For a system based on mutual respect to function properly, those at the top must show the way. This, sadly, is where our political leaders fall short. It's all very well ministers cooking up respect agendas for the hoi polloi whose votes they need but how much respect is shown to those same people from on high?

    When Labour forced through its disastrous policy of mass immigration, what respect did it show to the millions of indigenous working-class voters whose communites came under such serious strain as a result? Did anyone explain the true consequences rather than just the bogus benefits?

    And when David Cameron gave us a cast-iron guarantee that we would be able to vote on the ratification of a European Constitution (for that is what the Lisbon Treaty is) did he consider how disrespectful it would be to renege? Apparently not, up his sleeve was the metaphorical small-print.

    As bleak as it seems, Lord Sachs prognosis is unavoidable, "Parliamentary reform and financial re-regulation will treat the symptoms, not the cause. Without conscience, there can be no trust. Without a shared moral code there can be no free society. Either we recover the moral sense or we will find, too late, that in the name of liberty, we have lost our freedom."
     
  2. ccheese

    ccheese Member In Perpetuity
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    Believe me, Colin, Britain does not hold title to this type is dis-respect. The good ole USA has the same goings-on and
    it is pretty wide-spread. All our young people need is an excuse. It starts with a couple of people in a fist fight. Then
    it esculates into a full blown riot. This gives them the excuse to break windows in shops and steal whatever they can
    get their hands on. All this while the cameras roll, and they could care less. Our young people have no respect for
    someone else's property, and it appears they have no respect for themselves, either.

    Charles
     
  3. BikerBabe

    BikerBabe Active Member

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    The way I see it it isn't just lack of respect, but also a alarmingly tendency to raise one's kids without any kind of decent manners or personal limits.
    And yes, we've got the same thing going on here in Denmark - and unfortunately, the littering is just the smallest part of it.
    We've gotten the same kind of drive-by shootings going on in Copenhagen now, as we usually just thought was happening in the "big, bad" USA, riots, gang wars, and what have you.
    And basically - the way I see it - it all starts when the kids grow up while going to school - the parents seem to think that it's okay to let the kids decide too much in the family in a misunderstood attempt to please the kid and raise him/her to "take responsibility for his/her choices".
    The result is that you get kids who gets confused by the lack of limits, and that's the root of the problem - seen with my eyes, mind you.
    Of course the whole thing is a lot more complex than that, but generally speaking that's what I think.
     
  4. freebird

    freebird Active Member

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    I wonder, what happened to the people's PRIDE in the British nation?
     
  5. jamierd

    jamierd Member

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    there is no pride in britain anymore The very term United Kingdom is a joke ,this is a very divided kingdom indeed the politicians and public officials line their pockets and the people suffer.the teenagers drink more booze evry week than the adults .the police cant cope because there are not enough of them .there are no real communities left everybody looks after themselves to such an extent a recent case in edinburgh a pentioner had died in her house and nobody noticed for 5 years.I dont know what the answer is but i think we need to find it soon or it will be too far gone to fix
     
  6. Emac44

    Emac44 Active Member

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    I have to agree that a lack of respect in children is concurrent in most Western Countries and we can single out various reasons for it. My Opinion is with adults who have under the last 40 years forgotten how to parent effectively over their Children. Or the various Govenrmental interferrence in the social fabric of the family basis itself

    When I was growing up in my own family. My Parents reminded me of the R System as I call it.
    1 Respect for one self
    2 Respect for Family and members in the family etc
    3 Respect for Mother and Father
    4 Respect in taking responsibility for own actions
    5 Respect for Family Name Honour Honesty etc
    6 Respect others in particular Adults Teachers etc etc

    Basically Dad said you learn your MANNERS AT THE KITCHEN TABLE. Some Social Engineers might say this is old fashion or out of date. But in my own family it is still working as I apply the same rules of RESPECT in the inner workings of my own family as I was given by my own parents.

    As a Parent you make joint decissions with your spouse albiet that being husband and wife in the raising of the kids in the family. And these decissions can range from any aspect. For example when it comes to discpline both parents achieve a united area towards discipline in the family. But one also as a parent has to also discipline themselves. If you are to discipline the children in the family. In my opinion as such if a parent does not have self discipline how do you effectively discipline children in your care.

    To many times I have seen Parents trying to be their children's bestest friend if you like. To me this breaks down the boundary of respect that is supposively the ground frame of the family in itself. You can not be your kids bestest friend and in my opinion and be an effective parent at the same time. Some where the boundary between Parent and Child loses itself in a confusion of what the boundaries should be and shouldn't be. Again this is my opinion only. But of course you have to be an effective parent and take responsibility as a parent to you own children. In other words you are the Mentor the guider or in some cases the disciplinary figure of the parent to the child.

    Society does have a negative impact on the raising of the Child in the family. Especially when Governments try to interfer in aspects of child raising in the family. I believe Government agency criteria is set to destroy family values in Western Societies in various ways. But again this is my opinion. But it is not just the Government Criterai in the destruction of the family either. And I see parents who lack the ability to be effective parents self destruct their own family values and structure as well.

    One can not blame entirely the destruction of family values on Governments alone. As many so called parents go right along merrily with the concept abandoning their responsibilties as parents to their own children and do so quiet readily.

    As to the above article about Britian. The same occurs in Australia on a daily basis. But I will say this if one of my own children urinated on a War Memorial. The consquence for my child would be dealt with by either my wife or myself if not both.

    Some may say I am old fashioned in my approach to Child raising. But in our family it still works. And until such time I will continue along with my wife continue what lessons our parents imparted to us when my wife and I were children in our own respective families
     
  7. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Active Member

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    Excellent response, Emac. I wholeheartedly agree.
     
  8. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    It is the death of western civilization all over. There are still places that produce well mannered people but they are increasingly rural areas or southern towns.
     
  9. 109ROAMING

    109ROAMING Active Member

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    "The Death of Respect"

    How true :(
     
  10. Maestro

    Maestro Active Member

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    I think the real source of that problem is education of kids...

    I mean, there have been good and bad parents since our hairy ancestors came down of their trees millions of years ago. However, there have been a "who gives a f*ck ?" mentallity that started to grow in the majority of human minds in the late 60s.

    This is due mainly to the government and public schools. The government told the parents that they would now take care of the kids' education. Leading them to "give up" their parenting to schools and teachers with a strong union who couldn't care less about what and how the kids learn since they're gonna get their paycheck anyway.

    Add this to the more recent "pimp culture" that grew up in the 90s, and you've got stoned/boozed/retarded teens acting like douchebags... and female teens acting like whores because there was no one to teach them how to act in the society.

    But it is only my opinion... I could be wrong. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Emac44

    Emac44 Active Member

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    Mate you opinion is valid on many areas but. I still believe between Parents and Government Agencies it has been a disunion between both to destroy the very fabric of morality in the family. The Immorality of thinking that goes along saying. If it feels good then do it, Mentality. Which lends itself quiet well to So Called Educators and Parents who quiet frankly decided long ago to be less effective parents:evil:
     
  12. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    1. This is not limited to just Britain. What has been described in this thread can be found in any and all nations. I see it here in Germany as well as in the United States and every where else I go.

    2. Parenting is to blame for this as well. Parents today are lazy and do not take the time to teach and parent their children. They do not pass on good moral and family values. Until parents start taking responsibility for the lives of their children it is only going to get worse.
     
  13. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    Good to see Emac44 is still with us, I haven't seen a post by him in quite some time.

    One of my neighbors are both teachers and they have told me time and time again, that the fear of lawsuits against them (or the school district) and the abuse by parents who have an attitude of "my kids s*** doesn't stink" has greatly limited their school districts ability to discipline unruly and rude students. And this is the same across the country. They would love to begin attitude adjustment methods on their stuednts, [no, not physical abuse] but they cant.

    Not all is lost with civility though ..... this past Hallowean, plenty of "thank you's" were heard at our door.
     
  14. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    I think that:

    1. This is endemic to all societies and countries around the world except those that the government has a strangle-hold upon the populace, i.e. Iran.

    2. I believe it all comes down to faith or the absence thereof. And by faith I mean a belief in something that is stronger or more powerful than yourself. MOST religions have a respect and morality than their believers practice - its what has carried the civilized world all these many, many years. But when you yourself become the faith then you set the morals and respect that you want, with no guide. So it becomes ok to curse in public, kill your neighbor, throw trash out your car window or basically do whatever you want.

    of course thats IMHO.
     
  15. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    exactamundo, it's the parents and if they don't give a you know what guys guess how the kids are going to react and treat others of all age groups........well they aren't and not even themselves. Personally I give little future in today's youth unless they are determined to quit bitching and suck it up and get on with life ..........in a positive way.
     
  16. ToughOmbre

    ToughOmbre Active Member

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    Absolutely agree! Too many parents want to be "best friends" with their kids and their kids friends. Parents need to be PARENTS to their kids, with all of the discipline and instilled positive values that goes along with it.

    Be best friends with your kids when your kids grow up to be adults.

    TO
     
  17. Maestro

    Maestro Active Member

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    Not true.

    I don't believe in God, Allah, Buddah or whatever the hell you call him. If there really was a God there wouldn't be so much sh*t on Earth. (While most of this said sh*t is created by believers having a "my god is better than yours" syndroma.) So it is not linked to faith, but education.

    Why did I never break the law ? Because I feared prison... More particullarly prisons' shower room. Everyone knows what happens in there, so I won't draw you a picture. ;)

    No honestly, the idea of being put in jail really scared (and is still scaring) the sh*t out of me. But now, with the pimp culture, going to jail is saw as being cool. Add this to the YouTube syndroma (peoples doing crazy things and posting them online just to get their 15 secounds of fame), and you get the perfect storm.

    So, as I always said, education is the key... Not faith.
     
  18. Negative Creep

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    The worst thing about the gangs of kids is there is nothing you can do back and they know this full well. Yet some lentil eating liberal will never be far away talking about their "tough upbringing" or "human rights". I'm so gald I'm leaving this country, even if it sounds like we aren't the only ones with this problem. It's one of the reasons I'm thinking of joining the Police when I do get back, at least I can do something back!
     
  19. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    Agreed on that point
    lousy parenting, for whom kids are (were) a novelty, once the novelty wore off the kids were basically left to it, placated with silly designer wear for kids and playstations. The same parents then fly into self-righteous rage when teachers try and do their job and bring the kids into line. I was terrified of crossing the line with my junior school headmaster, a towering, seldom-smiling pillar of authority. Funnily enough, I didn't grow into a terrified adult as a result, just a respectful one. Kids who think they have nothing to fear invariably grow into adults who think they have nothing to respect.
    I was no angel as a kid, a bit of a tearaway but when caught and clipped round the ear by the owner of whoever's property or sensibilities I was violating, there was no cry for my human rights, even at that age I knew I'd just got what I deserved. I'm not advocating corporal punishment, but kids need to fear the wrong side of life until they're old enough and their judgement model is well-defined enough for them to know and respect the difference between right and wrong for themselves.

    Well, sincerely the best of luck in your new home, this place has gotten nasty to the point where I can't see how they're going to haul it back.

    Noble sentiment
    but not sure how that's going to help; if they can't get a high-powered Subaru Impreza police interceptor + TV camera crew involved, they're probably going to be 'powerless to intervene...'

    Tell me, at what stage in the last few years could you NOT walk into a Police Station and report a crime? You're either highly unwelcome or there's nobody there!
     
  20. Negative Creep

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    I'm not so sure about the whole corporal punishment thing.............my parents instilled respect, morals and discipline in me from a very early age but never once hit me. I'm not for one second claiming I'm perfect but I will show respect to people as long as they act likewise.

    But hey, it's not the kid's fault. They have ADHD, autism and dyslexia so it's the school's fault for not treating them accordingly :rolleyes:
     
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