Oh for %$# sakes!

[Nonskimmer]

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/03/war-musuem050503.html

What a pile of complete bunk!! The paintings do not deal with how Canadian soldiers deal with the psychological toll of modern warfare!

A little background:The Canadian Airborne Regiment was sent to Somalia to conduct peacekeeping operations, in 1992. Now these guys had been prepping to go in as an assault force while things were still on the hotter side over there. They're an airborne regiment! That's what they do! They're trained to kill and destroy! While enroute, the situation suddenly changes and Canada's role in the whole mess becomes one of peacekeeping. The Chief of the Defence Staff requests a recall of the Airborne Regiment and the deployment of recently trained peacekeepers in their place. Does Ottawa listen?
To save a few bucks in redeployment costs, they decide to leave them there. Well low and behold, they actually killed someone, who'd been trying to sneak onto their compound!
They're paras for Christ's sake! They're friggin' psycho to begin with! Yes, they're going to be nasty, not use kid-gloves on a preceived threat!

A big political mess ensues, some junior guys go to prison, some senior guys are "retired", and...the government disbands the Airborne Regiment! The paratroops still exist. Each of the regular infantry regiments now has it's own jump company. It was nothing more than a convenient excuse for that bloody Chrétien (our Prime Minister at the time of the inquiry) to save more money on an already dilapidated military!


So now to add insult to injury, they're gonna hang these things in the new war museum as an example of "how Canadian soldiers deal with the psychological toll of modern warfare"?! Jesus Christ!! How utterly pussified can we get?!
And you know what? The public will eat it right up, there's not a doubt in my mind! I'm willing to bet you that these "veterans" they refer to as having approved the concept were nothing more than clerks!

 

[evangilder]

Dude, I am with you, that totally sucks. I got half a mind to drive my POS Camry up there and slap some of the idiots! Oh wait, you can't slap them because shit splatters.

Those paintings do not belong there. period.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Dude, that's horrible! You should find out who those "Vets" really are. Its amazing what a little claymore on a door knob will do!

 

[evangilder]

Effective, FBJ! I like how you think. 8)

 

[mosquitoman]

Why does everybody knock their own forces, then when their country's under attack they run to them. It's just stupid

 

[evangilder]

It's not the forces, its the political correctness that has seeped its way into the upper echelons that try and cram that down the troops throats. I heard that the Drill Instructors aren't allowed to even swear at the recruits anymore. That kind of stuff gets me fired up. That and just general idiocy that either reduces the effectiveness of the unit or gets people killed.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

When I was in the reserves I was the Assistant Supervisor of my shop. Once in a while I would get a little "piss ant," 19 year old with an attitude who would think that his supervisor couldn't yell at him or take any kind of action against him because of the "bleeding heart" attitude now enforced through the US military. I would wait till I was behind a Blast fence or in the back portion of our shop and slap em around like a 6 year old. I made very sure that no one saw this although my maintenance chief knew about these methods and when conducted, ended the day with a "wink and a smile."

 

[evangilder]

In some cases, that is the only way to get your point across. It is also effective for those cases. But the PC crowd wet their pants at things like that, thinking it's a self-esteem issue or some other nonsense. But geez, sometimes a dumbass just needs a good ass-kicking to get them in shape and they are fine after that.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

stopping drill instructors swearing is one of the stupidest things ever!!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

In some cases, that is the only way to get your point across. It is also effective for those cases. But the PC crowd wet their pants at things like that, thinking it's a self-esteem issue or some other nonsense. But geez, sometimes a dumbass just needs a good ass-kicking to get them in shape and they are fine after that.

Back then I could be pretty harsh, but I was fair. When my boys did well the got tons of praise, but I tolerated no back talk. When that did happen they got an "Attitude Incentive Lesson."

 

[Maestro]

"Attitude Incentive Lesson."

Like the "Code Red" we heard about in the American movie "Des Hommes d'Honneur" with Tom Cruise, Kevin Bacon and Demi Moore ?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Not quite that bad. It was usually a one-on-one education lesson, WHERE I WOULD BIT#H SLAP THE LITTLE TART AROUND LIKE A RAG DOLL. When I was done his cheeks looked like polished apples freshly picked! If I were really mad I pracitced my football punt on the name tag sewen on the back of his trousers! I very rarely got others involved although one time we took one hard learner, duct-taped him head to toe to a swivel chair and left him with only his eyes exposed in the middle of the hangar. After 4 hours looking like a silver mummy, he learned his lesson. It was fun watching him de-tape.

 

[Nonskimmer]

Just so I'm not being misread, I have no problem with soldiers being prosecuted for committing atrocities. The painting of Mcpl. Matchee was made from an actual photograph. The soldiers involved should have been punished for the crime of beating that guy to death, including any superiors who may have issued them any directives to do so.

Nor am I trying to use the old excuse that "Well, the brass should have known better than to send in the Airborne to do peacekeeping!". But quite honestly...they should have known better. It was a grade-A cock-up to send them over for that type of operation. But rather than listen to the generals in the know, or admit to their mistake after the fact, they punish the entire regiment with disbandment! Outrageous! It's a classic example of political correctness gone too far, and it's been getting steadily worse ever since!

People are ashamed of their armed forces (or what's left of them!), and hardly want to acknowledge us it seems! That is of course, unless we're handing out food parcels or are involved in some kind of disaster relief.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Just so I'm not being misread, I have no problem with soldiers being prosecuted for committing atrocities. The painting of Mcpl. Matchee was made from an actual photograph. The soldiers involved should have been punished for the crime of beating that guy to death, including any superiors who may have issued them any directives to do so.

Nor am I trying to use the old excuse that "Well, the brass should have known better than to send in the Airborne to do peacekeeping!". But quite honestly...they should have known better. It was a grade-A cock-up to send them over for that type of operation. But rather than listen to the generals in the know, or admit to their mistake after the fact, they punish the entire regiment with disbandment! Outrageous! It's a classic example of political correctness gone too far, and it's been getting steadily worse ever since!

People are ashamed of their armed forces (or what's left of them!), and hardly want to acknowledge us it seems! That is of course, unless we're handing out food parcels or are involved in some kind of disaster relief.

No - I'm with you NS - and when an army fails in battle its those same people who ridicules us servicemen without mercy. There's a side of me that feels military service should be required for all so those who might make these decisions know what its like to walk in our shoes!

 

[evangilder]

I'm with both of you. The event that happened wasn't right, agreed. But the painting of that event in a museum is ridiculous. Wouldn't it be better to honor the heroes?

 

[plan_D]

That's what you get from today's society though. They all hate the military but they all cry to military when something bad happens.

 

[Maestro]

Just so I'm not being misread, I have no problem with soldiers being prosecuted for committing atrocities. The painting of Mcpl. Matchee was made from an actual photograph. The soldiers involved should have been punished for the crime of beating that guy to death, including any superiors who may have issued them any directives to do so.

Nor am I trying to use the old excuse that "Well, the brass should have known better than to send in the Airborne to do peacekeeping!". But quite honestly...they should have known better. It was a grade-A cock-up to send them over for that type of operation. But rather than listen to the generals in the know, or admit to their mistake after the fact, they punish the entire regiment with disbandment! Outrageous! It's a classic example of political correctness gone too far, and it's been getting steadily worse ever since!

People are ashamed of their armed forces (or what's left of them!), and hardly want to acknowledge us it seems! That is of course, unless we're handing out food parcels or are involved in some kind of disaster relief.

Yeah. As far as I know, even France never did such a thing.

My godfather is French. In the time he was in France (in the 60s), the military service was obligatory. Him and his two brothers all enlisted in Airborne units. My godfather fought during the war of Algeria and told me several stories. However, he never told me about a French regiment being disbanded because of such a thing.

Honestly, if ever I had to enlist in an army, my first choice would be to pay a trip to the UK and enlist in the British Airborne. If I was refused there, THEN I would try with the Foreign Legion in France. But fighting in the Canadian Army... I'm not sure.

 

[Nonskimmer]

Well it's my sincere hope that the dark age of the Chrétien era has passed!
The latest quorum of retards we have running the joint seem to be sloooooooooooowwly waking up to the realization that, like it or not, we do in fact need something that vaguely resembles a military.
Have you seen the latest defence review? General Hillier seems to be the no-nonsense type in his dealings with Ottawa. Hopefully some actual good will come from it. The need has finally been recognized it seems for new ships, aircraft, and for more personnel. But then again, there's the spectre of a federal election brewing and we both know how that usually turns out.
All the good intentions in the world ain't worth a bucket of shit until we see the hulls rolling off the slips. I should be retired by then.

But in the mean time, it looks like we may finally be able to get back to business of some sort. We've wasted enough time already.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/05/Chicoutimi_050505.html

 

[Maestro]

Unfortunately, I haven't seen the latest Defence Review. But like I thrust politicians the way I do, I could bet 50$ that they're gonna buy "used" material. Just like they did with the submarines (Britain was ready to dump them) and the helicopters.

No offence mate, but your "race" is dying.

Now, most of competent peoples who wants to work in the army either go in USA (how in the Hell is a Canadian able to enlist in the American army, I don't know. But I would like to know.), in UK or in the Foreign Legion. The Canadian army is the place where a competent rookie don't want to be.

By the way, if you're still in training to work in submarines, I wish you luck... You'll need it. Our submarines sinks... Eh, I mean "sucks".

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I feel for you guys - when I was at Lockheed we were having the roll out for the CP-140, an Argus was brought down for the ceremony. I made a comment to one of the CAF guys about getting 18 brand new airplanes. He told me, "yea these will have to last us 100 years," now I know he wasn't kidding, and that was back in 79'!