Operation Bodenplatte: how would you do it?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by tomo pauk, Mar 1, 2009.

  1. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    Fellas, what steps would you take to hit hard the allied airforce on their forward bases, as Germans tried on 1st jan 1945?
    What would go the same way, and what would not?
     
  2. delcyros

    delcyros Well-Known Member

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    No.1: Report the approximate times of returns to the own AAA forces deployed there. Cuts the casualty rate by nearly 40%...
     
  3. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Try to stirke hard and fast, allow enough time to withdraw before the allies use their number supeirority against you. That, and like Delcyros said, cut the casulty rates by informing the AAA batteries.
     
  4. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    Yust've watched the History channel's "The death of the Luftwffe" (about the Bodenplatte that is) at Youtube. In the show it is stated several times that attack was conducted at 9:00 AM ??? If that's true, then it was way to late for that day.

    Delycros' comment is spot on :)
     
  5. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    Destroying Allied fighter aircraft on the ground will accomplish nothing. Britain and the USA had endless quantities of replacement aircraft available.

    Use the hundreds of German fighter aircraft committed to Bodenplatte for a mass attack on the heavy bombers.
     
  6. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    How would you do it?: Not!
     
  7. delcyros

    delcyros Well-Known Member

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    It was actually planned. Galland trained his fighterwings for this very task but poor weather delayed the "great blow" time after time until Hitler felt convinced that a surprise ground attack would be more effective...
     
  8. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    Correct
    the Allies were flying those replacements in later in the afternoon of the same day. An excerpt from Battle of the Airfields

    After the raid, Major Brooking was at Headquarters when one of the captured Luftwaffe pilots was brought in. He was very cocky and when someone wanted to take his photograph, he insisted on first combing his hair and shining his boots.
    Whilst Brooking was talking to him, the German flyer walked over to the office window, arrogantly pointing to the burning Thunderbolts out on the airfield.
    "What do you think of that?" said the German, throwing his head back and smiling. Major Brooking felt like knocking him down but instead turned and walked out of the room.
    Replacement aircraft soon began to be flown in while the German was still being interrogated on the base. Major Brooking went to see him, took him to the same window and pointed to the new Thunderbolts.
    "What do you think of that?" asked Brooking. The German nodded thoughtfully.
    "That is what is beating us" replied the German sadly.

    Losses at Metz were 30 Thunderbols, 22 totally destroyed and 8 with AC category damage. 3 were slightly damaged. Hardest hit was the 386th FS with 12 destroyed and 7 badly damaged. Next was the 387th with 9 plus 1 damaged. All replaced by the end of the same day.

    JG53's 2 attacking Gruppen each lost 7 pilots and machines, and also 1 each wounded. The Luftwaffe continued to bleed.


    It was the same story across all of the airfields. The Allies could replace their losses quickly, the Germans could not. Greater than the loss of aircraft for the Germans was the loss of 151 pilots who died or were posted missing with another 63 taken prisoner - 214 pilots in total, including 18 Staffel, Gruppen or Geschwader commanders. It was a body blow for the Luftwaffe from which they were not to recover.

    Sources
    The Battle of the Airfields
    Norman Franks
    William Kimber Press
    ISBN: 0 7183 0448 9

    Me neither
     
  9. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    It was designed to coincide with the Ardennes Offensive, wasn't it?
    The Battle of the Airfields argues that the experience of the older pilots could not be imbued on the younger, inexperienced pilots in order to carry out a successful ground attack mission on such a large scale.
    The author presents the case that if it had come off with a smaller German casualty rate, the opening weeks of 1945 might have been different although the end of the war would not have come any later.
     
  10. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    I'm reading "To Win the Winter Sky" and it states that by the time of Wacht Am Rhein, Galland's plan was changed by Dietrich Peltz who was placed in command of fighter operations.

    Galland's original proposal was to attack bomber streams enmass, not neccessarily airfields. It was changed by Peltz.

    and the biggest change would be to second Delcryos suggestion. Freakin' let the Flak units in on it!
     
  11. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    That and wiki, I'm afraid my knowlege on Bodenplatte is limited.
     
  12. Clay_Allison

    Clay_Allison Active Member

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    Marcel has the right of it. It's a waste of manpower.
     
  13. fly boy

    fly boy Member

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    i would as everyone tell the AA to not shoot the heck out of them and maybe get a group of 262 fighter bombers and then take out aircraft on the ground
     
  14. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    The Germans did not have a lot of Me-262's, due to the fact that Hitler wanted them converted to fighter bombers. The 262's would be better off going after the bombers, and not to get into a dogfight with their more maneuverable adversarys.
     
  15. fly boy

    fly boy Member

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    true but with the heavy cannons that might have made some difference on allied air power up there
     
  16. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, but any losses the allies took would be replenished quickly. If any 262's got taken out, replacements for them were next to nothing.
     
  17. fly boy

    fly boy Member

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    good point
     
  18. Bernhart

    Bernhart <b>2012 Forum Fantasy Football Champion</ b>

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    Gallands theory of hitting the bombers with eveything would have had a larger psychological affect i think but still wouldn't have affected the outcome
    in the long run
     
  19. magnu

    magnu Member

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    To destroy aircraft hit the airfields which is a waste of German resources To kill the aircrew hit the pubs and clubs where they were celebrating the new year.
     
  20. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    it would of been more viable to do several night time attacks en-masse like Unternehmen Gisela that was done first week of March 1945. hit the bomber A/F's at night in England instead of trying to knock out fighter A/F's.

    have always felt one of the major goofs by the ugly Austrian was to pull off Fernenachtjagd missions in 41 and only a small return in spring of 45 from 100 crates or less per mission.

    E `
     
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