Admiral Beez
Captain
Operation Pike - Wikipedia
March 1940, the RAF and French Airforce bomb the Soviet oil fields.
Operation Pike Goes Ahead?
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March 1940, the RAF and French Airforce bomb the Soviet oil fields.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I agree with the assessment in Wiki that it would of hurt the Allies far more than help.
Interesting
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
I can't see the Western Allies adding another, and huge, enemy to their problems. They had their hands full with Germany as it was.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Then again, it was a contingency plan (I think). The UK and US had plans for invading each other as well.
I knew we should've done a better job liberating Canada from Perfidious Albion.
I knew we should've done a better job liberating Canada from Perfidious Albion.
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- #7
Admiral Beez
Captain
Thank goodness you didn't. I'll keep my affordable tuition, universal healthcare, zero abortion laws (and still our termination numbers are lower than yours), reasonable gun control, almost zero school shootings, nationally controlled and easy to use voter registration, ID rules and elections, government controlled drug costs, 18-month government paid maternity/paternity leave, nationally legalized cannabis, less racialized and more equitable schooling, separation of church and state (less a few nods in the anthem), substantially lower Covid-19 cases per capita (wth are you guys doing?), more trusting citizenry (we wear our masks and get our vax, it's not a conspiracy), successful and welcoming legal immigration process, modest military spending and little combat overseas, and we have nearly 10% of the globe's fresh water.
This place ain't perfect, especially if you're indigenous or poor, but that goes for nearly anywhere, but whenever I travel to the USA or elsewhere I often want to kiss the ground when I land home.
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Thumpalumpacus
Captain
Of course, contingency. There's Reasons® why it stayed there.
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- #9
Admiral Beez
Captain
I think Operation Pike came closer than the more hypothetical folders some bureaucrats at the Pentagon were tasked to invent.
That is almost universal. I have worked with many nationalities who were ex-pats in many countries, they all saw their home nation as the most beautiful in the world. Even Saudi Arabia has beautiful places (Ive seen them), and if you are a Saudi then that is where your home and your heart is.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
I think that forces actually started deployment towards execution; but those were superseded by events. That's always an issue when you're on the defensive.
50 tons of bombs onto Baku still probably wouldn't have done much beyond pissing the Soviets off, and follow-on strikes would probably be cut down with each additional mission due to losses and lack of resupply. Neither Britain nor France had the ability to sustain such operations once Fall Gelb happened -- and probably before then. But -- you've still got another enemy.
It boils down to a political decision. In this case, a smart one.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
- Thread starter
- #13
Admiral Beez
Captain
If the RAF and Armée de l'Air have begun bombing the Soviet Union in early 1940 there will be smart folks in Germany poking Hitler to offer terms to the British and French. Heck, the French might want to join in the fight, akin to a larger LVF. Meanwhile, Mr. "Peace in Our Times" Chamberlain is still PM and may be glad to accept terms with the Germans. Such a move will keep the so far at-peace Italians in check in North Africa and the Mediterranean.
Japan will be annoyed now, since Malaya, FIC and the DEI are not looking so ripe for a takeover. By 1942 Britain will have ten fast fleet carriers, plus Hermes, Eagle, Unicorn and Argus. If Germany is busy fighting in Russia, France is free and Italy is stewing in forced neutrality.... the British and CW forces in Malaya, Burma, India, ANZ and PNG will be teeming.
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I worked with a couple of Scots in Northern Italy, they complained every day about the food in the company restaurant, so the works manager said the chef would cook them anything they wanted. They asked for fried egg and chips, and when they got tjeir fried egg and chips they sent that back because the eggs were underdone. Basically they wanted to be at home with their mummy. Believe me, everyone in the world finds a reason to say their home town is the greatest.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
Meanwhile, the Germans and Soviets have already repartitioned Poland meaning that not only will the largely unmolested Caucasian production still arrive in Germany, but the USSR will probably be more willing to support the Third Reich insofar as it, the USSR, has also been attacked by the same nations.
Chamberlain wasn't an idiot. He knew he was already ass-deep in alligators with the swamp still rising. There's no benefit this hypothetical attack delivers that outweighs a declaration of war from the USSR, given Bomber Command/Adl'A tactical and operational inabilities. The Allied air forces would not be able to execute the mission. Remember, we Americans tried the same thing on Ploesti only to come away with a few bloody noses and no real drop in refinery production -- and that with B-24s, much more potent than Blenheims, Wellesleys, or Farmans.
The Soviets would now not only be supplying the Germans, but be co-belligerents, the RAF and Adl'A short on longer-ranged bombers and aircrew, and now you've got logistical requirements to support 100 operational bombers (meaning probably 140-150 bombers total) all the way in Syria while von Rundstedt is busy beating on your front door.
It'd be great for headlines, until the Meuse was crossed and France went down the sh***er all the same. I guess it's better than leaflet raids, but not by much.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
Certainly. The lyric I quoted is a sarcastic comment about that sentiment, a sarcasm I share for having lived abroad myself.
Nativism is cheap and easy thinking; it's a bit more work being cosmopolite, but once one has lived abroad, you can't escape it. The rewards delivered by the latter, in my own experiences, far outweigh the growing pains one might feel trying to understand a different culture.
I'm a Texas native who returned home about ten years ago. I can tell you more than a little bit about the parochialism we have here.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
There is also the small matter of the Swedes taking a dim view of being invaded...
- Thread starter
- #19
Admiral Beez
Captain
"Gotta bring the Russian bear to his knees
Well, maybe not the Russian bear
Maybe the Swedes"
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,954
- Jun 25, 2013
The US tried twice (well, once during the War of Independence) and failed miserably both times. I'm also sure that the largely Catholic French-Canadians would just love another set of some of the most rabidly anti-Catholic people on Earth as their new colonial masters.
Back to this Operation Pike. Invading two neutral countries and attacking the USSR does not seem to be the most brilliant bit of planning. It would probably piss off the US, which would not be beneficial to the French and British, and would definitely aggravate the USSR, which would be quickly less than beneficial. Do these also put out fires with gasoline?
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