P-38 Lightning vs P-51 Mustang: Which was the Better Fighter? (1 Viewer)

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hunter no matter how you look at it, it was a British Victory. Who cares about number of aircraft destroyed or civilians killed. It was a victory for the British.

Did the British prevent the Germans from destroying the RAF? Yes.

Did the British prevent the Germans from destroying the British factories? Yes.

Did the Germans invade England? No.

Therefore it was a British Victory.

 

[Hunter368]

Hunter no matter how you look at it, it was a British Victory. Who cares about number of aircraft destroyed or civilians killed. It was a victory for the British.

Did the British prevent the Germans from destroying the RAF? Yes.

Did the British prevent the Germans from destroying the British factories? Yes.

Did the Germans invade England? No.

Therefore it was a British Victory.

I agree with you Chris, thats what I said. The first post was a mistake, I said that in later post. I have been very very sick this week, on several meds right now. My mind is alittle foggy these days, I am sorry.

What I did say was I didn't think it was a one sided decisive victory for the UK. Victory...yes but not a one sided decisive victory for UK.

The other night I asked my wife where the pizza was I am hungry. She said what pizza? I said the pizza we had last night for supper. She said .....Mark we have not eaten pizza in a week. I went back to bed to get more sleep and rest. Yikes

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Hope you recover soon, Hunter!

 

[Hunter368]

Getting better, only one day left of the meds. Thanks

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I said that in later post.

Oops sorry missed that.

I have been very very sick this week, on several meds right now. My mind is alittle foggy these days, I am sorry.

Hope you get better.

What I did say was I didn't think it was a one sided decisive victory for the UK. Victory...yes but not a one sided decisive victory for UK.

Most victories are not completely one sided anyhow...

The other night I asked my wife where the pizza was I am hungry. She said what pizza? I said the pizza we had last night for supper. She said .....Mark we have not eaten pizza in a week. I went back to bed to get more sleep and rest. Yikes

 

[Erich]

Meds, meds ? did someone say meds..........

yes I know the crap feeling, Hunter get better. and my sig says it all, smooth to cut the air, aerodynamic as can be it's a Mustang if you see ..........Blue nose bastards to rip the air, good grief I've got little hair !

 

[Hunter368]

Thanks guys, I am starting to feel better after the meds have kicked in and had a chance to do their magic. Feeling much better ......about 75% now.



Chris I agree not alot of battle are clear one sided decisive victory. Thats all I was saying, BoB was not one for UK. I feel that the German air victory over Russia in 41 was decisive victory, as was the Allied one over the Germans in France in 44. USA was one in South Pacific in 43-44 was also one. But there is not many of them in WW2.

 

[Chief]

Still though the British inflicted more losses to the germans and the invasion never occured. In my opinion thats decisive enough because it just as easily have been a loss and the invasion could have occcured. Whether the invasion would've succeeded we'll never know, thankfully.

 

[nosredna]

is it before the new engine in the mustang or after?

 

[lesofprimus]

U know ur questioning a post that was written 10 months ago???

 

[Matt308]

And I thought that you were going to change your Carlin quote.

 

[HealzDevo]

I think that the P-38 Lightning and the P-51 Mustang were approximately equal in Fighter characteristics. The only reason the P-38 Lightning was not really used in Europe was that when the US entered WW2 they had Britain as a base for their P-51 Mustangs to act as escorts from. Also the P-38 Lightnings were needed more in the Pacific theatre where they needed a long-range escort fighter. Therefore that is why the P-38 Lightning was a rarity in the war against Germany, however some did participate it seems as I have a photo of a P-38 Lightning done in yellow underbody and greenish brown top-coat with a Nazi symbol on it as a captured P-38 Lightning by the Germans. Germans must have thought it had some good combat characteristics to repaint and repair such a rare aircraft from their perspective, and also we have the wanted posters about the P-51 Mustang so both of these aircraft seem to have struck fear into the Germans. The P-38 Lightning remarkably so considering that everything I have seen seems to indicate that they were in very few numbers in the Western theatre of WW2...

 

[Erich]

I would not call it a rarity as the 15th AF 1st, 14th and 82nd fg's had some pretty dang good scores with the 38 in the MTO/ETO. they even tangled with 262's in December 44 and February 45 damaging several. the 474th fg from the 9th AF was a pretty good outfit as well .......... the 370th fg also flew the 38 till late in the war then flying P-51's

 

[HealzDevo]

Okay, I hadn't found out that they were flown much in the European theatre and therefore assumed that they were rare. Anyway, must remember when I get the chance to post some images of captured P-51 Mustangs and P-38 Lightnings I have.

 

[Erich]

captured examples run by the mobil team of Zirkus Rosarius which also included RAF and US bombers/fighters for purposes of teaching Luftwaffe single and twin engine fighters and NF's crews on ways/means of attack and the weak points of Allied a/c. From November 43 till wars end the 15th AF was running right up the butt of the Reich - Südfront in Yugoslavia, Austria and Bavaria even up into Central Germany

post away

 

[MAV_406]

I SAY P-38 BECAUSE IT TOOK ON THE ZERO WITH ALOT OF SUCCSES

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The P-51 would have taken on the Zero with the same successes. The Zero was not as good as everyone thinks it was. I am not discrediting the Zero because it was a fine aircraft but more of a myth than what it is made out to be.

Having said that I too think the P-38 was a better fighter but P-51 does have a lot of advantages too. The P-51 was easier for a newer pilot to fly for the most part.

However the P-51 would have slaughtered the Zero as well. I would go as far as saying that most of the modern (WW2 era modern that is) were better overall than the Zero to include the Fw-190, Ta-152, Spitfire, Bf-109 etc. The Zero had good range though.

 

[Hunter368]

The P-51 would have taken on the Zero with the same successes. The Zero was not as good as everyone thinks it was. I am not discrediting the Zero because it was a fine aircraft but more of a myth than what it is made out to be.

Having said that I too think the P-38 was a better fighter but P-51 does have a lot of advantages too. The P-51 was easier for a newer pilot to fly for the most part.

However the P-51 would have slaughtered the Zero as well. I would go as far as saying that most of the modern (WW2 era modern that is) were better overall than the Zero to include the Fw-190, Ta-152, Spitfire, Bf-109 etc. The Zero had good range though.

I agree 110% Chris, but the Zero did fill their needs for a long range carrier based fighter. Not all other modern fighters filled that role. I am not saying by anymeans that the Zero was as good or better than any of the planes you listed but they all could not full fill the role that the Japanese needed. Not to mention the Zero was being used in 1940 for the first time.

The Zero allowed the Japanese to do or wage war where it could not with a short range fighter. But tatics quickly developed by the allies over came the Zero, plus better planes, better trained pilots, all meant the death of the Zero. It was a "good" plane for the role it was developed for at the time it was developed, but nothing more. Poor armor, poor guns, no self sealing tanks, no radios, poor high speed performance.

It could not fight evenly vs the planes you listed I agree. It was out matched and should of been replaced in 1942 at the latest.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I completely agree. I was only stating that if that was the reasons why the P-38 was considered the best that there were other aircraft that would have scored the same successes. I agree with you though.

 

[comiso90]

The P-38 definately had advantages but as always, my money is on the pilot not the plane. Take an "average" pilot on a high altitude bomber escort mission and I'll bet on the P-51.

I've read a ton of unflatering things about the p-38. Here is an example from Wiki:

>> Although the P-38 had gained an enviable reputation in North Africa as the "fork-tailed devil," the P-38 did not have as much success over Germany. In this northern climate, it was an "ice-box" on high-altitude missions, and it was out-performed by the Fw 190 and the later marks of the Bf 109. The main reason for the P-38's relative failure in high-altitude operations in the European Theatre was due to engine failures experienced above 20,000 feet. Frequent engine failures were attributed to failing spark plugs and other parts that could not use the European, rain-drenched fuel. Many of the aircraft problems were addressed by the P-38J variant, but by September 1944, all the Lightning groups in the 8th Air Force had converted to the P-51. The Eighth did continue to operate the F-5 recon variants with more success.

The P-38's service record shows mixed results. On the negative side, most variants were certainly harder to fly than the best single-engine fighters and in early models, pilots suffered badly from the cold in northern climates. Also, the twin turbocharged Allisons had problems – a good portion of Lightnings were lost during the war due to engine difficulties rather than by enemy gunfire, which contributed to the plane's relatively low kill-ratio. Up until the "J-25" variant, P-38s were often "sitting ducks" to Luftwaffe fighters because of the problematic engines and the lack of dive flaps to counter compressibility in dives. German fighter pilots would often go into steep dives because they knew that the Lightnings would be reluctant to follow.<<

Once they changed the engine on the Mustang, it was a terror.