P-38 Lightning vs P-51 Mustang: Which was the Better Fighter?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Fork Tailed Devil is actually just a myth. That was discussed here a while ago. It is true that a soldier may have said it in N. Africa but that was just his personal opinion. The Germans never actaully nick named the aircraft the Fork Tailed Devil.

 

[renrich]

In Europe, the P38 had 129,849 sorties for 1758 losses or one loss for every 74 sorties. The P51 flew 213,873 sorties for 2520 losses or one loss every 85 sorties. (the P47 was superior to both in that matter) Some of the reasons for the P38 problems were, as mentioned by other members, engine problems caused by high altitude operations, poor cockpit heating, early P38s had a generator on only one engine so if that engine failed you had to come home on only a battery, the airplane was large and easy to see and identify(an advantage on D-Day), it was a big target and had a lot of critical parts to be hit by enemy fire, it had a very poor initial roll rate,( you can't turn if you can't roll), it's compressibility problems were aggravated because the air temperatures above Europe are colder than in the Pacific or California,(the speed of sound varies only with air temperature) so the pilots could not dive the airplane from high altitudes until it got dive brakes, the pilot work load was high because of twin engines and because of poor cockpit layout,( the fighter conference in 1944 voted the P38L as having the worst cockpit), it was a difficult air plane to maintain. Some pilots said that the P38 had to have two engines so it could come home on one. In the Pacific, the P38 came into it's own(more or less) because of warmer air temperatures and less high altitude fighting and because it's long range was useful in the great distances of the Pacific war. It could wrap up in tight slow speed turns in the hands of an experienced pilot by the use of it's Fowler flaps and because of the contra rotating props taking away the torque problems of a single engined fighter. However Tommy McGuire killed himself maneuvering that way against a Japanese fighter. Energy tactics were really the P38s forte. There were situations in the CBI when the P38 was not appreciated because it used a lot of fuel and every drop of fuel at certain airstrips had to be flown in. The P51 was superior when fuel shortages and primitive maintenance conditions were the norm. On balance it would seem that the P51 was the superior fighter.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Ya know it's funny, with all the ETO talk of the poor heating of the P-38, the aircraft was operated in the Aleutians - never heard much of those guys complaining of the heater.

 

[davparlr]

I think that in the hands of an expert pilot, the P-38 was a formidable fighter. In the hands of a less than expert pilot, the P-51 was a fomidable fighter. That is the difference. Also, the provable top speed of the P-38 was not up to par with the P-51 and late-war piston powered German aircraft.

The P-51 was the best selection for long range fighter escort and long range air-to-ground interdiction.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree Dave. I like the P-38 better than the P-51 but as you say the P-51 was easier for a novice pilot to fly.

 

[renrich]

The cockpit heater problems were solved by the time the P38 served in the Aleutians and it was said that the P38 was a shirt sleeve airplane there.

 

[Hollywood]

Far too many issues for a clear cut "winner" between the two aircraft.....
Adolf Galland said the P-38's were "no problem" in air to air combat, whereas the P-51's gave him the biggest headaches. Personally, I like the P-38 because so many people seem to promote the P-51 as the "best" and outside of roll rate I just don't think it was a BETTER aircraft, simpler and easier to maintain OK, but BETTER?

 

[HealzDevo]

Is that because they solved the problem of a heater that didn't work by transferring the plane to a hotter climate?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The cockpit heater problems were solved by the time the P38 served in the Aleutians and it was said that the P38 was a shirt sleeve airplane there.

Was it? There were P-38s in the Aleutians in 1942 - 43, and they were flying P-38Es.

 

[HealzDevo]

That was the question I'm asking, whether it was transferred there to solve the problems by the climate being warmer...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

That was the question I'm asking, whether it was transferred there to solve the problems by the climate being warmer...

And that it did - there is no denying there were heating problems with the P-38 but in my opinion this was part of a wider ranging excuse of some 8th AF brass who just didn't like the aircraft. What's colder, a P-38E cockpit, or the open waist of a B-17?!?!

 

[HealzDevo]

Good question that one I suppose.

 

[renrich]

The source I am quoting said " all problems concerning heating and defrosting were entirely cleaned up on the P-38L-5. It was a shirtsleeves aircraft in the Aleutians." The first combat deployment to Alaska takes place on May 29, 1942. They are P38Es and the planes are winterised and equipped with drop tanks. 25 aircraft of the 54th Sdn. 343rd FG, 11th AF go to Elmendorf Field at Anchorage. Maybe the pilots had electrically heated shirt sleeves.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

They are P38Es and the planes are winterised and equipped with drop tanks. 25 aircraft of the 54th Sdn. 343rd FG, 11th AF go to Elmendorf Field at Anchorage. Maybe the pilots had electrically heated shirt sleeves.

Or supply chain of these shirt sleeves didn't reach the ETO.

 

[Sgt. Pappy]

P-38L-5 of 1944 solved the heating problem. Like bombers, the pilots had electrically heated suits. The window defrost system was also a little better b/c of the electrical heating but not by much. In the warmer theatres, pilots often just stripped down into their skibbies since opening the side windows would cause severe buffeting.

As an overall fighter, I'd say the Mustang wins by a small amount. The P-38 Lightning's fowler flaps allowed it to turn almost as tight (some say even tighter) than Mustangs and then some believe even late Bf 109's. The P-38 had 2 engines and would climb better. Firepower was better b/c of the convergence. The P-38 was far more versatile and its counter-rotating props opened up a whole new world of dogfighting techniques for its pilots. The Lightning even had a longer maximum range.

The main reason the spam can wins IMO is b/c it was cheaper, easier to maintain, consumed up to 80% less fuel for a given distance and it was much easier to learn to fly in. As a dogfighter though, I'd say that the P-38 wins given that the pilots know anything about EVERYTHING in their respective planes.

 

[HealzDevo]

With these electrically heated suits, could the crews actually get burnt by their suits?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

With these electrically heated suits, could the crews actually get burnt by their suits?

No easier than you would in an electric blanket...

 

[pbfoot]

I have heard the suits were very tempermental and prone to short circuits . They would get hot spots. Can't find any proof but I've read it and heard it

 

[FLYBOYJ]

If you ever seen one, just wearing one would of done the trick.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Damn I would not want to be in that spot. I know how cold it can be sitting behind an open window on a gun in an aircraft and we flew at 50 ft but damn it can get cold.