P40 Vs all other fighters in Europe
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SR6 & FBJ are correct regards aircraft performance and pressure altitude. I tried to explain it in a previous post but think they did a better job spelling it out.
FBJ also brings up a point with the P-38 / P-47 and turbocharging. With the two stage engines (supercharging) you see a notch in the climb chart where the switch from low to high blower occurs. In
Ugh! He likes the negative stuff!
FBJ also brings up a point with the P-38 / P-47 and turbocharging. With the two stage engines (supercharging) you see a notch in the climb chart where the switch from low to high blower occurs. In
Ugh! He likes the negative stuff!
Probably there is a part of latest sentence that is missing?
The notch in the climb chart is not due to the engines having 2-stage superchargers, but due to the 2-speed drive for the said superchargers. Same feature is present on 2-speed 1-stage superchargers, eg. on engines powering the the Hurricane II, P-40F, Yak fighters, Fw 190, or F8F-1.
Enines with 2-stage supercharging have had the S/C drives with 2-speed gearing (as on the Merlin 60/70/100/130 series), or 3-speed gearing (Jumo 213E and F; the P&W engines with 2-stage S/Cs sorta fall in this category), or one or both stages were driven via hydraulic coupling (= infinite number of speeds in theory; the V-1710 on P-63 and P-82E, DB 603L and 605L, VK-105PD).
Tomo,
I thought I deleted that second paragraph. I was starting to speak to some questions that Schweik brought up regards pressure altitude, wingspan and performance but after re-reading FBJs and SR8s replies decided to skip it. I failed proofreading it would appear!
Biff
That's where it's at, Man! (Out to ten seconds, anyway.)
Actually it takes a bit more than steady state negative 1 G to red you out. I didn't see any "outside" maneuvers in that acro sequence. Even one negative sustained gets pretty old pretty quick. After 10-15 seconds it stops being fun. And in a glider you're surrendering altitude pretty quick in sustained inverted flight, unless you've got one designed specifically for acro which sacrifices some of its upright performance for a symmetrical airfoil. $$$!
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
When I first stared flying I had air sickness issues traced to possible inner ear damage. I was able to overcome that and was able to handle adverse maneuvers. In my 30s I started doing some aerobatic training and it didn't bother me too much. These days - no way!
Thumpalumpacus
Major
My gonads should not be introducing themselves to my colon. I'm pretty simple that way.
Actual negative? Or just zero G? I've done inverted flight (briefly) in a 150 Acrobat, but it turns into a glider muy pronto inverted. Positive G airplane. Your steady 2 G in a 172 had to have been positive and in a 60° bank. A 172 can't sustain a steady 2 Gs any other way. Routine training maneuver prepping for accelerated stalls.
The USA stayed out of Europe until Torch got things going in North Africa. Really, other than Service in the Med and Italy there was no need for USA fighters in Europe other than bomber escort until DDay June 1944. The P40 was history as a front line fighter by then and we did well with the latest versions of P47, P38, and P51. Much of P40 production went to China, Burma, Australia, New Zealand and Russia until D Day in France.
Yes... just nosing over I think... the instructor said it was negative G, I thought I remembered an actual gauge but maybe that is my memory failing. The 2G (positive) was in a sustained bank turn. I remember trying to lift my left hand off my lap and it as amazingly heavy.
North Africa was fairly important though I would say, and certainly on a large scale (which people tend to forget about). Second El Alamein involved 116,000 Axis troops with 547 tanks (losing 500) vs. 195,000 Allied troops and 1029 tanks (also losing 500.
Axis forces lost 620,000 troops (killed or captured) in the NA Campaign, not counting Sicily or Italy. The British lost 220,000, the Americans about another 20,000.
P-40s played a pretty big role in that Allied victory.
By comparison the Axis lost 165,000 men in Kursk, the Soviets lost 250,000 (plus another 600,000 wounded or seriously ill)
Stalingrad was bigger though - Axis 750,000 men, Soviets 1,129,000
You would be surprised how fast the human body can adapt. The F-15 F16 both have 9G limits, and you routinely pull 5-7 without dog fighting. Moving your head around works up until about 7, then you want to make sure it's aligned before going further. Talking, flying, tactics, running the radar, shooting all becomes second nature.
G tolerance is interesting. Most folks have about a 4G resting, or when they start to experience graying out. Marathoners will have lower, body builder types higher. We did the centrifuge while at Lead In Fighter Training (LIFT) at Holloman AFB. One of the guys in my class had a 6.5G resting tolerance. He had played football for Texas A&M. The techs were all amazed.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
This is about the extent of high G maneuvers I'm willing to deal with these days!
This was taken about 23 years ago. I used to help the owner with maintenance and his annual condition inspection. This was an FCF where we got the system for the G suits working, so we went and tried it out. I can't remember how many Gs we pulled but it's a little un-nerving seeing those tip tanks flop around when you're yanking and banking!
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Yabut that need was urgent and realized by late summer 1943. The P-40 wasn't able to cut that, good as it was in other regimes of flight.
Was just today reading Elmer Bendiner's chapter about his group's attack on Schweinfurt in Aug 43. Unescorted due to SNAFU so jagdwaffen lined up and took shots for about 400 miles. That was where the need for fighters came to belated light. "Give us fighters, goddamnit".
230 B-17s flew to Schweinfurt that day. 170 returned, and another 17 never flew again.
There was certainly a need for USA fighters in Europe -- if only for the bombers and nothing else -- in my view.
Yes and the British got more
I left the British out of my comment and they probably had a hand in dishing out the P40 to Aussie's, Kiwi's, SAAF and such. It definitely got used in Europe but mostly before US got in with better planes. Italy still gets a tough write up where we(USA) were learning to fight uphill with equipment we still learning to fight with.
Were the seat still hot? And if so, what does the civilian world do for mx on them?
Definitely. In hindsight it was a hard lesson for the USAAF to learn as the original intent was that the B-17 could operate unescorted over Europe. This was the basis of the British use of the Fortress I in 1941. That little experiment was costly and taught the USAAF and RAF much, but the essential lesson was not learned, that if both the British and US wanted to conduct daylight bombing ops they needed escort fighters. To match the situation because for some bizarre reason certain RAF heads (yes, you, Portal) refused to acknowledge the need for escort fighters, the RAF went to full-time night offensives, although they did fly daylight raids with escorts, no less, into occupied territories.
They did. All those services bought the P-40 through the British production orders, their aircraft being delivered with British equipment. It's worth noting that the Brits bought US aircraft before the US had entered the war because they needed aircraft in numbers whose supply was not under attack and could be maintained - that's what mattered. What the Battle of Britain had taught the RAF was that the numbers game applied and the side with the most aircraft being resupplied quickly to replace attrition could, and in the BoB situation, did win. Since US factories were not subject to bombing raids, supply of US aircraft was only natural, but of course was on condition of the US government, hence the establishment of the British (and French) Purchasing Commission.
