lesofprimus
Brigadier General
The incident happened in mid 1944... I dont think a W/C would have been in a IX.. He was flying a Mk XIV....
p51 vs p47
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lesofprimus
Brigadier General
This is true...
Anyways the subject is moot, because he was flying a Mk XIV....
Anyways the subject is moot, because he was flying a Mk XIV....
wmaxt
Staff Sergeant
plan_D said:
In the book he Specificaly states "5 blade prop and Griffon engine" He also misquotes Gallands kills when he recounts his encounter with Galland in a 190Dora.
The Spit story in the book was told several years later and coroberated by others. The story about Galland and the fw-190d was coroborated by Galland himself in the preseance of others. I've seen different stories to the same end but cannot cite sources so I won't.
Thanks for reminding me where I first found the Spit story, Primus.
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
He does claim Galland had over 300 kills, but i dont think that was John Lowells messup, i think it was the individual that did the final write for the book....
It does not say anyhting about a griffon engine, but does say 5 bladed prop....
It does not say anyhting about a griffon engine, but does say 5 bladed prop....
Erich
the old Sage
better check your sources friend, Galland never flew a Dora 9 on missions. He went from JG 26 to the Generalstab until his commanding posting to JV 44 and Me 262 in 1945
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
The story refers to them as "Long-Nosed" -190's.... Galland has confirmed this engagement and story.... Maybe it wasnt a -9????
Erich
the old Sage
just re-read the story, what fantasy. Ja I shot down 8 P-38. He got one truthfully while flying a Me 262 in JV 44. The story is nonsense....sorry guys......
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Hmmmm...... Kinda bursting my bubble Erich..... **sniffles...
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
If I am flying a ground attack mission, I want the P-47. If its a air-to-air mission I have to prefer the P-51.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
i'd agree with that............
cheddar cheese
Major General
Id just take the P-47 in any circumstance...
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Im with LG and Lanc on this one....
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
The P-47 didn't handle nearly as well as the P-51 in air-to-air. The P-51 would out run, out climb, and out turn the P-47. Even in the areas where the P-47 had some advantage (dive and roll) the P-51 was still better than most of the opponents it would be facing.
wmaxt
Staff Sergeant
lesofprimus said:
It said "bigger engine" I intrepreted that to mean Griffon as that was the only bigger engine available. Maybe I was off base if so I appoligize, it's not my intention to exagerate the P-38 has had enough of that in both directions already!
wmaxt
Staff Sergeant
Erich said:
Galland was/is known for his exagerations, but why admit he was on the wrong end of an engagement? Remember to, he didn't tell the story he only confirmed it!
All I ask is that people look at all the P-38 data and give it the same unbiased view they give other aircraft, including their favorites.
Erich
the old Sage
how could Galland first hand confirm a situation when he wasn't there ? must have heard this through other German pilots flying the Dora.
As I said Gallnd was promoted and put into the Generalstab until very late in the war when he was part of the formation against Görings orders .............Me 262 equipped JV 44.
As I said Gallnd was promoted and put into the Generalstab until very late in the war when he was part of the formation against Görings orders .............Me 262 equipped JV 44.
A
Anonymous
Guest
plan_D said:
As I recall, it was a brand new P-38L vs. a very new XIV.
A
Anonymous
Guest
lesofprimus,
Is that the whole story of the Spit XIV vs P-38L encounter?
=S=
Lunatic
Is that the whole story of the Spit XIV vs P-38L encounter?
=S=
Lunatic
A
Anonymous
Guest
wmaxt said:Erich said:
Galland was/is known for his exagerations, but why admit he was on the wrong end of an engagement? Remember to, he didn't tell the story he only confirmed it!
All I ask is that people look at all the P-38 data and give it the same unbiased view they give other aircraft, including their favorites.
Because it would make for a good laugh, a good story, and he had a sense of humor?
Seriously, without more we just don't know if he was serious or joking.
============
I do give the P-38 the same unbiased view I give other planes. In the late J and L form, it was an excellent plane. Prior to those late models, it had lots of little problems that added up to large deficits.
The P-38L was competitive with the P-51 at lower speeds, at higher speeds it suffered from compressability issues that were never resolved. The P-38L might have beaten several "better" fighters in low speed combat, but a smart pilot would never let that happen.
Overall, for US fighters I rank them as follows (as pure fighters):
F4U-4
P-47M
P-47N
*F4U-1d
*P-38L (and late J)
*P-47D (per R. Johnson's with ~2700 HP and paddle prop)
*P-51B (with malcom hood and ammo feed motors)
P-51D
P-38H
F6F
etc...
* very close (but still organized in order of pref).
The F4U-4 stands out for its combonation of speed, climb rate, excellent high speed manuverability, and toughness (Corsairs were tougher than even the P-47). The P-47M and N are so fast they would control the fight with slower planes, espeically the M. P-47's could also roll quite well while under G load, P-38's (and P-51's and F4U's and F6F's) could not.
The P-38's are also hurt by their relative fragility.
=S=
Lunatic
