p51 vs p47

[plan_D]

The P-51 is nowhere near being over-rated. The P-51 was a marvel of an aircraft! It may not have been the best turning machine of World War 2 - it may not have been the most durable aircraft of the war either but it did the job extremely well.

The P-51 entered a fight at high speed and high altitude - the perfect situation for any pouncing action. As previously mentioned most aircraft shot down never saw their attacker - the P-51 therefore didn't need to be quick on the turn. It needed to be fast at cruising while going all the way with the bombers - the majority of P-47s couldn't go all the way from Britain to Berlin and back, the P-51 however could.

The P-51 was a stable platform and six M2 .50 cal are certainly enough to bring down any interceptor. It was also an easy aircraft to fly - and more importantly an easy aircraft to mass produce! The mass numbers of P-51s roaming the sky is something to credit to the P-51s design - the simple design was something that allowed the U.S to produce it in such numbers to allow that many in the sky.

And what was cheaper out of the P-51, P-47 and P-38? The P-51. What was easier to produce? The P-51. What would be better for a country at war with the need for a lot of good aircraft, very quickly and at a cheap price? The P-51.

War isn't about perfection - it's about above-average product in vast quantities and cheap cost. The P-51 served a wars purpose better than both the P-47 and the P-38.

From a pilots point of view - you could take any three of them and praise them to high heaven. But when it comes down to winning a war - you want the most # from the least $ which can do the job - and what better than a P-51?

 

[Nonskimmer]

Very well said, D.

 

[superunknown]

I totally agree, anyone who says that the P-51 was overrated needs a slap.
The P-47 was built as a heavyweight fighter, nothing more, nothing less, it did it's job to the best of it's ability and beyond. However the P-51 could quite literally do any job it was given and do it well, a jack of all trades, master of none. The P-51 was the backbone of the USAAF, and served with more countries worldwide than any other WW2 generation fighter, it also outlived them all, in the guise of the Cavalier which was still in mainline service with the USAF until the late 70's, not a bad achievement for the US built "forgein" fighter that no one wanted. The original Mustang was built to an RAF specification (as a replacement for the underwhelming P-40) which NA did, after various tests with the US army it was modified into the A-36 which did it's job with merit over North Africa, Italy CBI, even destroying 100+ aircraft in air to air combat even though the Allison engine was only designed for low altitude use. Once the stable airframe was married to the RR Merlin they had a real contender. I have said this before but, comparing two fighters against each other all depends on who is using it, where it is being used and for what purpose, the P-51 can satisfy all these catogories as it has been in practically evey situation possible for a fighter, could you say the same for the P-47?

 

[plan_D]

Thank you, thank you. This reminds of the time everyone was calling the Spitfire over-rated - and I put them straight too.

 

[Nonskimmer]

The Spit overrated?!
What the...?! Ok, ok...deep calming breaths now...Ah, better.

 

[plan_D]

I know, I know - I was disgusted too.

 

[Erich]

the P-51 was the preferred ETO escort fighter. Boys in the 9th AF when receiving the Jug cried out "give us back our Stangs !" Then354th fg was the top scoring fighter group in the ETO. Originally based here in Oregon

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but then, there were pilots that cried, "give us back our jugs" when they got 'stangs

 

[superunknown]

The P-51 fighter project was the most sucessful of all time, before the Phantom took the title.
Both the Mustang Phantom served far and wide, with a long service history, and both served well.

And as for pilots crying for their P-47's after being given a P-51, I would have done as well, it's like driving a shelby cobra and then having to drive a standard run of the mill ford mustang..... but it's still a legend.
"If you wanted to impress your girl back home you flew the 'tang, If you wanted to get home to your girl, you flew the jug"

 

[plan_D]

And as I've already mentioned; from a pilots point of view the P-47, P-51 and P-38 can all be praised. Each pilot had his own choice of aircraft because they were all good but from a grand point of view - the P-51 was the best!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

OK - I'm going to jump in here and stir the pot a bit.

The P-51 over-rated?!? I think it was a bit and I'll tell you why.....

Pound for pound we have discussed on this fourm other aircraft's advantages over the -51, for example the -109K, the -190D, the P-38Ls and P-47 M and Ns (I wrote that on purpose!). It wasn't the fastest, it wasn't the most maneuverable, it didn't have the best climb and it always wasn't a pilot's favorite. Where my comments come from it being over rated is from some writers (Like Osprey Books) and in some cases USAAF personnel painting a veil of invincibility with regards to the -51. As Super Unknown mentioned, it was the most successful fight program in history until the Phantom came along because it offered "competitive" performance, ease of production compiled with a cheap price. It was an aircraft where a good pilot could jump into it and become a great pilot but by far it wasn't invincible and it actually really sucked as a ground attack aircraft, mainly because of its vulnerable to ground fire. But when you combine its positive attributes you do come up with an over-all great fighter, perhaps the over-all greatest fighter of WW2, but not in the perspective painted by many writers and some pilots who would have you believe that the -51 was indestructible! It's easy to paint that picture when you out number your enemy 12 to 1!

 

[Erich]

sorry Lanc but no P-51 wanted the Jug back. It was used for it's intent in the ETO and that was dive-bomber ground attack as priority in the 9th AF. No-one wanted it back. Only the 56th fg contined to fly the bird successfully in the escort role. In Pacific it may well have been a different tune but P-38's were still fown there as well on a steady basis.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I am sorry but as CC put it there was nothing special about the P-51. She was fast and had great range but she was not the greatest thing since bread and butter. Neither was the P-47 but she was a better overal aircraft.

I do agree with the assumption though that the P-51 would be better because of cost. You could get more into the air for less money which is what you want in war.

 

[Erich]

Adler I will be blunt. the P-51 was the top escort fighter of the war.......period. In fact to be purely honest there waas nothing really great about any WW 2 fighter from any side, the one advantage the Me 262 had was flat out speed but suffered in other respects such as faulty engignes and poor fuel consumption.

It all added up to pilot technique and experience and this was either going to lead him to victory or defeat during an aerial engagement and certainly luck, but I do not believe in luck, so when the cards are dealt there is no going back.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed with you completely Erich. The P-51 was the best escort fighter but it was not the best aircraft. I do agree with you also on the fact that no aircraft was really special and all had there faults.

 

[Jank]

Thought the P-47N was a better escort plane than the Mustangt.

 

[plan_D]

The P-47N was extremely late in the war and probably was a superior escort fighter to the P-51D - but so what? You could get more P-51s in the air than P-47s. P-51s could handle themselves in the air and they were the best escort fighter from a countries point of view.

I already said they were not the best dogfighter, they were not the best interceptor, they were not the best bomber destroyer, they were not the best ground attack aircraft but they were the best escort fighter.

They got those bombers to Berlin and back better than anything else out there. It might have been due to high numbers but you cannot build high numbers of a complicated aircraft. The P-51 was a sturdy, reliable, easy aircraft.

I don't care if a Bf-109K-4 could out-climb it - the P-51 wasn't an interceptor. I don't care if a Fw-190D-9 could out-roll it, the P-51 wasn't a dogfighter. I don't care if the Typhoon packed more of a punch, the P-51 wasn't a ground attack aircraft or a bomber destroyer. It was an escort fighter and escort fighters do one thing - they keep the interceptors off the bombers and the P-51 did that, it kept the daylight offensive alive.

Before anyone mentions it - I know the A-36 was a ground attack aircraft.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I don't care if a Bf-109K-4 could out-climb it - the P-51 wasn't an interceptor. I don't care if a Fw-190D-9 could out-roll it, the P-51 wasn't a dogfighter. I don't care if the Typhoon packed more of a punch, the P-51 wasn't a ground attack aircraft or a bomber destroyer. It was an escort fighter and escort fighters do one thing - they keep the interceptors off the bombers and the P-51 did that, it kept the daylight offensive alive.

Well put

 

[d_bader]

I feel that the p-47 was underated and has not been given the credit it is due but however i voted 4 the p-51 because it is the one i would prefer to fly if i had the option.

 

[syscom3]

the simple design was something that allowed the U.S to produce it in such numbers to allow that many in the sky.

The P51/A36 used a laminar flow wing design. While this type of wing is very efficient, its also very complicated to build in quantity. NAA performed a miracle in tool design that this type of wing could be built to very tight tolerances in a mass production enviornment.

A saying came about in WWII that describes the Mustang well: "The Mustang won't do what a Spitfire does, but it does it over Berlin". ....They weren't the best turning planes in the air, but by the time they were widely in use pilots understood that turning was a very limited performance characteristic in combat - what was required of newer fighters was speed. And the P51 had it in droves; it was faster than almost everything in the air, climbed reasonably well, and suffered much less high speed maneuverability loss than most of its opponents, due to the wing design.