Passenger jet shot down over Ukraine

[michaelmaltby]

Very dangerous developments ... in perspective

Vladimir Putin's pointless conflict with Europe leaves it a vassal of China - Telegraph

 

[javlin]

Very dangerous developments ... in perspective

Vladimir Putin's pointless conflict with Europe leaves it a vassal of China - Telegraph

Great Article!Thks for posting Mike

 

[YakFlyer]

So Russian trade is suspended, assets frozen in other countries, Immm, sounds all too familiar...

 

[YakFlyer]

The Ukrainians have more to gain, if they dispatch the civilian airliner, and sucessfully blame it on the Soviet backed rebels, then they gain global support, against this conflict against Russia. If Russia shoots down the airliner, what can they gain, absolutely nothing.

This was staged event. Another agenda is at work. I hope New Zealand has the brains to stay the hell out of it.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"....Another agenda is at work."

Pray tell. Do unburden yourself with evidence, YakFlyer.

 

[Glider]

This will be good

 

[GrauGeist]

The Ukrainians have more to gain, if they dispatch the civilian airliner, and sucessfully blame it on the Soviet backed rebels, then they gain global support, against this conflict against Russia. If Russia shoots down the airliner, what can they gain, absolutely nothing.

This was staged event. Another agenda is at work. I hope New Zealand has the brains to stay the hell out of it.

Before you buy too much into the misinformation, understand that the Russian backed seperatists had the Russian BUK system. The ignition source of the missile seen by sattelite, was near the Russian border, deep in rebel territory. The day that MH17 was downed, rebels were bragging and celebrating about downing a Ukraine military transport on social media as well as Russian news broadcasts. When it was discovered that the "military transport" was in reality MH17, several Russian news programs showed the same pictures of the wreckage but changed the information to read that the Ukraine just shot down a passenger jet...and in one case, it was the same news anchor.
The day after the tragedy, a BUK system was seen moving east, towards the Russian border with an empty launch rack.
There is a considerable amount of evidence that the Russians provided the means and the ability for the seperatists to bring down the airliner.

And if you want to discuss your misinformation further, perhaps take the discussion to this thread: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/off-topic-misc/since-international-forum-any-concern-about-whats-going-ukraine-40175-14.html, so we don't clutter up Marcel's thread here...this thread was to stay informed about the tragedy.

 

[Marcel]

Thanks Dave.
Dutch members of the investigation team are home. It was impossible to work at the site, so they'll have to wait. Doesn't mean the criminal investigation os over, but there now only a few researchers on site.
At the moment 23 victims have been identified. The group estimates that the will be able to identify at least 176 victims.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hopefully, they'll be able to identify all, and bring closure to all the families

 

[Marcel]

Hopefully, they'll be able to identify all, and bring closure to all the families

Not much hope. A lot of the remains are just an unordened pile of body parts. They're doing a great job, but the fact that there were many families on board makes thing more difficult. Making DNA matches is difficult if the victims are genetically closely related. So many will not be identified with 100% certainty.
My hat of to the people doing it. It's a difficult job, I know, I'm a molecular biologist myself.

 

[Gnomey]

Certainly a seriously difficult job and no doubt harrowing as well. Hopefully we get to the bottom of the situation and clear everything up.

 

[rank amateur]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0
Our military believes that this missile system was hit by Boeing. And now it urgently Russian terrorists hide
GrauGeist, thanks

Now call me suspicious but isn't it more than a bit coincidental that anybody is filming just the very second that this BUK happens to pass?

 

[Marcel]

Well no, everybody nowadays has a smartphone so can film anytime. And this is an area where palmost everybody has a camera in their car to film everything they see (remember the meteor in Russia some time ago). Youtube is full of the stuff.

 

[GrauGeist]

That video reminds me of times I have something interesting coming and have gone to grab my camera...you'll note that the video is not taken from the street or approching, which would indicTe they knew in advance that it was coming, but it has already passed the person's location when the video was taken...

Trust me, I have alot of great photos of aircraft or locomotives that have already passed me!

 

[razor1uk]

I think that even some of the public who are living within the separatist areas would be concerned about the idiots in the area hiding under the ideology of separatism - irrispective of what they personally believe.

Also, it probably had at least one truck and a BTR-90 running ahead of it - in case of mines and to clear the road ahead of the launchers route and such.

 

[at6]

Pootin' Putin's boys are definitely there. Where else would "separatists" get the tanks shown on the Evening News?

 

[imalko]

By seizing some weapon depot of Ukrainian army perhaps?

 

[Torch]

Can't believe the Ukraines would just leave their stuff there for the taking, atleast boobie trap them..

 

[GrauGeist]

There is a mix of T-72 tanks of the rebels that have been identified:

T-72BV, which was fairly common as an export tank and is a Ukrainian Army regular type. However, since being put into secondary service or storage by Russia means plenty available to support the rebels.

T-72B1, this is a mixed bag, as there are different ones spotted that could go either way. Early types with with smoke dischargers mounted according to whether or not it was equipped with the Kontact-1 ERA can help give an idea if it was drawn from Russian surplus stocks or captured from a Ukrainian depot.

T-72BM, this is the one that can be called the "smoking gun". This is exclusively a Russian tank and can be identified by several unique features, especially it's Kontakt-5 armor (ERA). There have been several spotted, mixed in with rebel armor groups and convoys in various areas.

 

[razor1uk]

There is a mix of T-72 tanks of the rebels that have been identified:
.....
T-72BM, this is the one that can be called the "smoking gun". This is exclusively a Russian tank and can be identified by several unique features, especially it's Kontakt-5 armor (ERA). There have been several spotted, mixed in with rebel armor groups and convoys in various areas.

I'd say IMHO the few of these mixed within the 'rebels'spera\tists' are the veteran 'volunteers' perhaps as command/network tanks.