Passenger jet shot down over Ukraine

[Freebird]

Love those examples...

In all honesty, the "bombing" of a UN hospital or the Bombing of the Chinese Embassy don't have much to do about this thread, other than thinly veiled barbs at the U.S. and Israel.

Grau - no "barbs" at Israel or the US. (and I obviously should have said "shelled", not "bombed")
The relevance to the thread is that in a time of war/conflict, mistakes are made and unfortunately civilians are killed.
You could say that the US Israel were aware of the nature coordinates of those targets, but due to errors they were struck and people died. It wasn't deliberate but it happens. Flight 17 should never have been attacked unless they were able to confirm that it was a military target and not civilian. The Vincennes might have known that a radar target with a civilian "squawk" and an ascending altitude was very possibly a passenger airliner, and verified it. But in all of those cases, in the heat of battle, somebody made a decision to push a button and it had tragic consequences.
It would be better to simply come out and admit that a mistake was made, and apologise promptly, rather than obfuscate and deny.

If we want to stay on track and put it into perspective, then let's look at the bigger picture:So this sort of BS has been going on for nearly 100 years. After viewing this terrible list, I certainly hope that "we" don't continue to "pick and choose" tragic events to villify one group or a nation in the future.

I couldn't agree more, every nation should make all possible efforts to safeguard against civilian casualties.
When mistakes are made the perpetrator should come clean and apologise.
We also need to be honest about are own mistakes instead of brushing them off - if we are to maintain credibility and respect in the world.

If it was an accident (and I do believe it was) they should have stated such. Denying it and coming out with ludicrous explanations such as the CIA was behind it or releasing a doctored photo showing a Ukraine Fighter shooting it down really makes it look like a cover up.

Viking, I don't disagree at all that a speedy and contrite apology would be best, but sadly the technique of repeated denial, cover up, and misinformation seems to be the rule of thumb, (and indeed effective) followed by a grudging admission long after the fact, when the media's interest has moved on to something else.

Much like Clinton's strident denials of impropriety, the BS explanations for the attack on the Benghazi embassy, car companies denial of design faults that they were perfectly aware of, etc etc etc.
The sad fact is that denial and obfuscation have been shown to be very effective in reducing damage from scandals misdeeds, and by the time the truth comes out there's little interest or condemnation of the tactic.
The Donets separatists have unfortunately decided to follow that route.


edit: This certainly isn't about bashing the US, I've used examples that many are familiar with.
I could cite the Canadian government's actions in the sponsorship scandal (denials and a publication ban on the most damaging testimony) and numerous other examples from other nations.

 

[Hartmann52]

What do you think about it, colleagues?
https://mh17.correctiv.org/english/

 

[vikingBerserker]

I keep getting error message when I click.

 

[Torch]

Worked for me,interesting read..

 

[GrauGeist]

What do you think about it, colleagues?

Really well presented article, lays out cold-hard facts. Thanks for sharing the link.

I keep getting error message when I click.

That's because you don't know the secret hand-shake...

 

[vikingBerserker]

I must have figured it out as I can see it now!

It always concerns me when a piece references anonymous sources, but the article is very logical.

 

[GrauGeist]

As far as personal sources, the author did cite sources where possible, but in that part of the world, a person can still disappear (and do, actually) very easily. And if they don't disappear, they are usually found very dead along with family members.