Picture of the Day - Miscellaneous

[Wurger]

 

[special ed]

As a new member, I have spent the last five days, on and off, reading this complete thread. The amount of info about the Japanese and chinese as well as Korean history is captivating. I have learned more from Shinpachi, as well as MM and others, as I have from all the books in my library. Domo Arigato Shinpachi.

 

[Shinpachi]

As a new member, I have spent the last five days, on and off, reading this complete thread. The amount of info about the Japanese and chinese as well as Korean history is captivating. I have learned more from Shinpachi, as well as MM and others, as I have from all the books in my library. Domo Arigato Shinpachi.

Thanks for your kind comment, special ed, and welcome to the forum.
I'm glad if you have enjoyed this thread.

If I may add -
I think the Far-east history which leads to the modern days started in the 7th century when Japanese decided to accept the Chinese culture and language like Koreans did as they had been occupied by ancient China - Tang. Westerners came in later but the history of this area is still on this prolonged line to repeat.

 

[special ed]

Shinpachi, if I may ask your views on something I have wondered about for years. In Dwane Schultz's book "The mavrick war", he tells of Chennault's efforts to warn Washington of the coming Pacific war. He attempted to tell the US army but because he left after much conflict, they would not believe the Japanese had better aircraft and equipment. He the went to the navy as he knew it would be their war. They of course didn't listen. The book tells of Chennault's convincing a returning naval aid to take two large crates of Japanese equipment home to the navy. This was put on the Panay. About 30-35 years ago. a TV program on the history channel about the Panay included two US veterans who survived the Panay. Their account was as they swam toward shore two boats were rowing out but since they didn't recognise the uniforms. they changed direction and hid in brush at the shoreline. They said that the troops did not pick up any people but removed two large crates and returned to; shore. What are your thoughts?

 

[Shinpachi]

Thanks for sharing an interesting story, special ed.
I find no reports about the crates but many excuses about what they had done on the USS Panay and other neutral ships.

 

[special ed]

Thanks for looking. There are many stories we will never know, either they didn't survive then or have passed on now. I know of a number of small incidents only told to family members when those involved were in their 90s.

 

[tyrodtom]

Shinpachi, if I may ask your views on something I have wondered about for years. In Dwane Schultz's book "The mavrick war", he tells of Chennault's efforts to warn Washington of the coming Pacific war. He attempted to tell the US army but because he left after much conflict, they would not believe the Japanese had better aircraft and equipment. He the went to the navy as he knew it would be their war. They of course didn't listen. The book tells of Chennault's convincing a returning naval aid to take two large crates of Japanese equipment home to the navy. This was put on the Panay. About 30-35 years ago. a TV program on the history channel about the Panay included two US veterans who survived the Panay. Their account was as they swam toward shore two boats were rowing out but since they didn't recognise the uniforms. they changed direction and hid in brush at the shoreline. They said that the troops did not pick up any people but removed two large crates and returned to; shore. What are your thoughts?

That would be a little bit of a stretch to believe that, just think of the timeline.
Chennault gets in China in June 37, the Sino Japanese war starts in late July 37 - early Aug. while he's trying to train the Chinese airforce he gathers up 2 big crates of superior Japanese technology ( I wonder what that could be in 1937) put's it on the US gunboat Panay, ( Where ? Ever look at a picture of the Panay ? ) which gets sunk by the Japanese in early Dec. 37.

 

[Shortround6]

Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory

 

[Shinpachi]

IJA Yoshida Unit was deployed near the Panay but their major concern was the occupation of Nanking planned on the next day.

"Claire Lee Chennault and the Problem of Intelligence in China by Bob Bergin (excerpt from pdf file).

From Japanese airplanes that crashed during the first air battles he salvaged equipment and sent the best of the materiel to the US naval attaché. With the Japanese advancing on Nanking, the attaché secured it in the safest place he knew, aboard the US gunboat Panay.
Two days later the Panay was attacked by the Japanese and sent to the bottom of the Yangtze. With it went Chennault's collection of Japanese military equipment."

Source: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a523664.pdf


The crate size should be around these ones thinking the launch size.

Source:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsFSoYKtro0

 

[Wurger]

 

[special ed]

Excellent research. Other books indicate Roosevelt, in violation of neutrality, had looked for a way to send B-25s to Chennault as he requested. It was hoped the Hornet's aircraft would help Chennault.

 

[Shortround6]

Well, Roosevelt would have had to have been mighty tricky.

1. The Hornet raid was 5 months after Pearl Harbor and thus, 5 months after neutrality had ceased to an issue.
2. As of Dec 7th 1941 NA had completed 120 B-25s in total.
Considering it would take several months to ship (by ship) the B-25s to Burma (or India?). unload them, assemble them and fly them to chinese territory this seems like very wishful thinking.
The 100 P-40s for use by the Flying Tigers arrived in Rangoon June 21st ,1941 (shipped when?) and didn't go into combat until Dec 20th, 1941.

 

[special ed]

Actually only 99 P-40s arrived as one fell into the harbor (can't remember if loading or unloading) but can't remember where. Various books indicate Chennault pestered FDR for bombers, B-25s and even B-17s. Chennault's idea was to hit Formosa where the Japanese bombers came from. Eventually, with Dec 7-8 action requests were made easier but still not enough supplies were available.

 

[Shinpachi]

Sorry for my concern about our neighbors again as this mid-August is a season of condolences as Bon for the Buddhists.

2nd Lt. Fumihiro Mitsuyama (1920-1945). Korean name Tak Kyong-hyong (卓庚铉).
Mitsuyama died as a Kamikaze attacker on May 11, 1945.
He is regarded as a traitor in Korea and his soul stays in Yasukuni Shrine.

Wishing his soul coming home, students of Chungkang College of Cultural Industries in Korea is dedicating this animation movie to him.
This is an interesting phenomenon as they did not pay attention to the Japanese war in the Pacific before.

 

[Milosh]

 

[Shinpachi]

Soviet investigation team in Nagasaki in late 1945.
Their standards to measure the explosion scale at the time was a hole made by the explosion but there was no hole.

Source: 原爆映像：旧ソ連撮影、広島と長崎に寄贈 - 毎日新聞

 

[special ed]

No hole,because it was an air burst at about 1600feet if I remember what I read correctly. The weeks before the actual bomb, a series of missions were made with black powder bombs in "fat man" casings to determine best altitude. Basically not for damage, but to record the barometric fuse accuracy.

 

[Shinpachi]

Their conversation I imagine from local testimonies.

"Yes, Colonel. The bomb exploded in the sky like this umbrella."
"In the sky? Wasn't it fuse malfunction? "
"I don't know sir but the strong ray was more fatal than the blast."

 

[Wurger]

"OK. Let's take some of the strong ray and gift it to comrade Stalin for the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution."

 

[Shinpachi]

The world's fault.

Japanese did not blame Americans so much as the rest of the world did about Hiroshima/Nagasaki because Japanese knew the new event was a part of the war.

During the war, we blamed the indiscriminate bombings on civilians by the B-29s as a war-crime but never Hiroshima and Nagasaki only. Not asking our opinion, the world misunderstood us about this point. The world should blame and stop the indiscriminate bombing/attack itself as a rule if they don't want tragic war on civilians anymore.