PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS
- Thread starter FLYBOYJ
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
- Thread starter
- #2
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Donald Bochkay
363rd FS of the 357th Fighter Group
02-09-45 - Fulda, Germany: Me-262 Victory
04-18-45 - Prague, Czech: Me-262 Victory
F/O Charles Brantley (100th FS)
1 ME 262 Jet Destroyed March 24,1945
Capt. Roscoe Brown (100th SF)
1 ME 262 Jet (Destroyed March 24, 1945
Lt. Earl Lane (100th FS)
1 ME 262 Jet (Destroyed March 24, 1945
(Tuskegee Airmen)
363rd FS of the 357th Fighter Group
02-09-45 - Fulda, Germany: Me-262 Victory
04-18-45 - Prague, Czech: Me-262 Victory
F/O Charles Brantley (100th FS)
1 ME 262 Jet Destroyed March 24,1945
Capt. Roscoe Brown (100th SF)
1 ME 262 Jet (Destroyed March 24, 1945
Lt. Earl Lane (100th FS)
1 ME 262 Jet (Destroyed March 24, 1945
(Tuskegee Airmen)
- Thread starter
- #4
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
DAVIDICUS said:
Sure, if you have that data.
Erich
the old Sage
I posted a ton of info including pics in older postings about the Me 262. Several US aces and airmen are personal friends. About 13 or so jet killers of the US AF are still living. I am seeing two this August to my north.
One a pilot from the 56th fg and the other from the 354th fg
E ~
One a pilot from the 56th fg and the other from the 354th fg
E ~
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
The Tempest did well against Me262s, Ivan Kodehzub was the only Russian pilot to down one
Erich
the old Sage
Actually Ivan was one of 3 Soviets that downed a Me 262.
I was planning on writing up a book on jet killers so I'll dump some more goodies here by weekend-sunday or so.
E ~
there were approximately 29 Me 262's and several Ar 234's destroyed as claims by RAF single engine fighters
I was planning on writing up a book on jet killers so I'll dump some more goodies here by weekend-sunday or so.
E ~
there were approximately 29 Me 262's and several Ar 234's destroyed as claims by RAF single engine fighters
- Thread starter
- #9
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Erich said:
Thanks Erich, appreciate you sharing them!
A
Anonymous
Guest
I'd be interested in any info on the effectiveness of the .50 M23 incendairy round which was deployed in late 1944 or early 1945 specifically to kill the jets. It had a muzzle velocity of about 1100 m/s, weighed 34.5 grams (quite a bit less than the ~44 gram M8 API), almost 6 grams of IM28 (a more potent incendiary metal than IM11), but an effective range for incendiary effect of only about 500 feet.
=S=
Lunatic
=S=
Lunatic
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
The one i know anything about is post war.
Since the close of WWII Britian's Fleet air arm has shot down 25 enemy aircraft, and 24 of these were over the falklands, so where's the other one??
Easy- over Korea. An FAA Hawker Sea Fury, the pilot of which i don't know, managed to shoot down a MiG-15..............
Since the close of WWII Britian's Fleet air arm has shot down 25 enemy aircraft, and 24 of these were over the falklands, so where's the other one??
Easy- over Korea. An FAA Hawker Sea Fury, the pilot of which i don't know, managed to shoot down a MiG-15..............
- Thread starter
- #12
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
the lancaster kicks ass said:
I heard of this too, anybody else got info
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
I *believe* the Fury was from 801 Sqn FAA. The carrier Im not sure of, although a rusty memory suggests it was Invincible or Illustrious. If anyone could correct/clarify, that would be cool!
(Am technically revising for a continental philosophy exam at the moment, so dont have time for a full look-up!)
(Am technically revising for a continental philosophy exam at the moment, so dont have time for a full look-up!
)- Thread starter
- #14
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
BombTaxi said:I *believe* the Fury was from 801 Sqn FAA. The carrier Im not sure of, although a rusty memory suggests it was Invincible or Illustrious. If anyone could correct/clarify, that would be cool!
(Am technically revising for a continental philosophy exam at the moment, so dont have time for a full look-up!
From the Air War Museum website:
"Sea Furies served extensively in the Korean War, operating from Royal Navy carriers HMS Glory, HMS Ocean and HMS Theseus, and Australian carrier HMAS Sydney. They usually paired with Fairey Fireflies for ground attack missions. The Sea Fury excelled in this role, often proving superior to the enemy's modern jets. For example, on August 9, 1952, Royal Navy Lieutenant "Hoagy" Carmichael, flying a Sea Fury of HMS Ocean's 802 Squadron, shot down a Soviet-built North Korean Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG 15, marking the first such kill by a piston-engined fighter, and the only air-to-air kill by a British pilot flying a British aircraft in the Korean War."
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
I stand corrected...although I was almost right on the squadron! 
- Thread starter
- #16
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
BombTaxi said:I stand corrected...although I was almost right on the squadron!
Remember BT - almost only counts in horseshoes, handgranades, hatchetfights and nuclear war!
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
good point......
and thanks for the extra info..........
R Leonard
Staff Sergeant
Well, not World War II, but . . .
On 10 September 1952, Captain Jesse G. Folmar, USMC (VMA-312), in an F4U-4B (BuNo 62927) shot down a MiG-15 off the North Korean coast near Chinnampo. MiG pilot was seen to bail out, afire, and the MiG observed to crash into the sea. Moments later another MiG shot down Folmar. He bailed out and was rescued by a SAR plane, called by his wingman, Lieutenant Walter E Daniels, USMC, spending about eight minutes in the water.
On 20 June 1965 a four-plane RESCAP division of VA-25 A-1H's off USS Midway led by Lieutenant Commander Edwin Greenhouse, USN, was jumped by a North Vietnamese Mig-17 north of Thanh Hoa. Initiating a section-to-section "Thach Weave," while running for the coast, they were able to sucker the MiG in close. Lieutenant Clinton Johnson, USNR, in BuNo 137523, and Lieutenant (jg) Charles W. Hartman, III, USN, in BuNo 139786, got the drop on MiG as it approached the other section and gunned it down in an head-on encounter. Each received ½ credit for the kill.
On 9 October 1966 Lieutenant (jg) William T. Patton, USN, flying a VA-176 A-1H (BuNo 137543) in a four-plane RESCAP off USS Intrepid shot down an interfering MiG-17 near Hanoi. Kill was observed by his section leader, Lieutenant Peter Russell, USN.
Regards,
Rich
On 10 September 1952, Captain Jesse G. Folmar, USMC (VMA-312), in an F4U-4B (BuNo 62927) shot down a MiG-15 off the North Korean coast near Chinnampo. MiG pilot was seen to bail out, afire, and the MiG observed to crash into the sea. Moments later another MiG shot down Folmar. He bailed out and was rescued by a SAR plane, called by his wingman, Lieutenant Walter E Daniels, USMC, spending about eight minutes in the water.
On 20 June 1965 a four-plane RESCAP division of VA-25 A-1H's off USS Midway led by Lieutenant Commander Edwin Greenhouse, USN, was jumped by a North Vietnamese Mig-17 north of Thanh Hoa. Initiating a section-to-section "Thach Weave," while running for the coast, they were able to sucker the MiG in close. Lieutenant Clinton Johnson, USNR, in BuNo 137523, and Lieutenant (jg) Charles W. Hartman, III, USN, in BuNo 139786, got the drop on MiG as it approached the other section and gunned it down in an head-on encounter. Each received ½ credit for the kill.
On 9 October 1966 Lieutenant (jg) William T. Patton, USN, flying a VA-176 A-1H (BuNo 137543) in a four-plane RESCAP off USS Intrepid shot down an interfering MiG-17 near Hanoi. Kill was observed by his section leader, Lieutenant Peter Russell, USN.
Regards,
Rich
With the sole exception of nine (9) guncamera shots from USA fighters i have i would say the bulk -if not all- of those jet claims filed by USAAF veterans are pure tales.
The guncamera im referring to shows 9 jets indeed getting pounded by enemy fighters.
Amazingly all nine shots i owe show the German jet at very low altitude with the undercarriage displayed for landing. In two of those shots you can clearly see the paved runway and even trucks in the back ground. In some others you can see trees, thickets, etc.
Perhaps a few more jets damaged by a bomber box defensive barrage got intercepted and shot down, but the allied assertion of P-51s, P-47s or whatever plane managing to outfly the German jet is in my view a Grimm fairy tale.
Also what i do find quite strange is the fact some Me262s were captured intact at the end of the war and no mock-dogfights involving the Schwalbe and the "perfect" P-51 were made to attempt proving the very common allied babbling saying that when the jet turned "it was piece of cake".
Couldn´t it be the easiest and coolest way to show the world your alleged marvels such as the P-51 could deal with the Me262 in a dogfight?
Make a mock-dogfight and have it filmed god damn it.
Or perhaps such tests were carried out but the USAAF decided to either modify or conceal the actual outcome of such tests...who knows, they have done stuff like that. Why not to do it with the jet.
"Oh, well...the machine surely was fast...but our gallant and honorable pilots could handle it with relative east...whenever it turned, we fried the hun..."
Reminds me of the funny British testing of a captured Bf109G fitted with underwing gondola cannons to prove their Spitfire was "better".
Not even when compared to the gondola equipped Bf109 G could the Spitfire prove any significant and defintive "superiority".
The guncamera im referring to shows 9 jets indeed getting pounded by enemy fighters.
Amazingly all nine shots i owe show the German jet at very low altitude with the undercarriage displayed for landing. In two of those shots you can clearly see the paved runway and even trucks in the back ground. In some others you can see trees, thickets, etc.
Perhaps a few more jets damaged by a bomber box defensive barrage got intercepted and shot down, but the allied assertion of P-51s, P-47s or whatever plane managing to outfly the German jet is in my view a Grimm fairy tale.
Also what i do find quite strange is the fact some Me262s were captured intact at the end of the war and no mock-dogfights involving the Schwalbe and the "perfect" P-51 were made to attempt proving the very common allied babbling saying that when the jet turned "it was piece of cake".
Couldn´t it be the easiest and coolest way to show the world your alleged marvels such as the P-51 could deal with the Me262 in a dogfight?
Make a mock-dogfight and have it filmed god damn it.
Or perhaps such tests were carried out but the USAAF decided to either modify or conceal the actual outcome of such tests...who knows, they have done stuff like that. Why not to do it with the jet.
"Oh, well...the machine surely was fast...but our gallant and honorable pilots could handle it with relative east...whenever it turned, we fried the hun..."
Reminds me of the funny British testing of a captured Bf109G fitted with underwing gondola cannons to prove their Spitfire was "better".
Not even when compared to the gondola equipped Bf109 G could the Spitfire prove any significant and defintive "superiority".
wmaxt
Staff Sergeant
Udet,
If the 262 pilot was on final or in a turn where the jet made a wider turn it is possible with a goog guess as to the destination an intercept could be accomplished. A lot also depends on awarness of the jet pilot and/or the situation of the jet, out of fuel, 1 engine out etc. When your on final and your out of gas your a sitting duck in every way!
I've never heard or seen a pilots account that even hinted at out performing a jet of any kind at anytime. Always the account mentioned something that put the jet into the performance envelope of the piston engined fighter. Many were caught landing or taking off. Given the Flight time available to the 163 and 262 and the swarms of Allied fighters at the time and place the jet/rocket planes HAD to be used it was inviteable that it happened.
wmaxt
If the 262 pilot was on final or in a turn where the jet made a wider turn it is possible with a goog guess as to the destination an intercept could be accomplished. A lot also depends on awarness of the jet pilot and/or the situation of the jet, out of fuel, 1 engine out etc. When your on final and your out of gas your a sitting duck in every way!
I've never heard or seen a pilots account that even hinted at out performing a jet of any kind at anytime. Always the account mentioned something that put the jet into the performance envelope of the piston engined fighter. Many were caught landing or taking off. Given the Flight time available to the 163 and 262 and the swarms of Allied fighters at the time and place the jet/rocket planes HAD to be used it was inviteable that it happened.
wmaxt
