PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by FLYBOYJ, May 10, 2005.

  1. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Let's try to list all the piston engine aircraft jet kills recorded. WW2 will be the emphasis, but let's try to get some in the post WW2 era. Photos welcomed, remember your source!
     

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  2. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Donald Bochkay
    363rd FS of the 357th Fighter Group
    02-09-45 - Fulda, Germany: Me-262 Victory
    04-18-45 - Prague, Czech: Me-262 Victory

    F/O Charles Brantley (100th FS)
    1 ME 262 Jet Destroyed March 24,1945

    Capt. Roscoe Brown (100th SF)
    1 ME 262 Jet (Destroyed March 24, 1945
    Lt. Earl Lane (100th FS)
    1 ME 262 Jet (Destroyed March 24, 1945

    (Tuskegee Airmen)
     
  3. DAVIDICUS

    DAVIDICUS Member

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    Could everyone also list the allied aircraft that was the kill instrument as well?
     
  4. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Sure, if you have that data.
     
  5. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    I posted a ton of info including pics in older postings about the Me 262. Several US aces and airmen are personal friends. About 13 or so jet killers of the US AF are still living. I am seeing two this August to my north.

    One a pilot from the 56th fg and the other from the 354th fg

    E ~
     
  6. DAVIDICUS

    DAVIDICUS Member

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    Those kills from the 339th and 363rd would have been P-51's.
     
  7. mosquitoman

    mosquitoman Active Member

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    The Tempest did well against Me262s, Ivan Kodehzub was the only Russian pilot to down one
     
  8. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Actually Ivan was one of 3 Soviets that downed a Me 262.

    I was planning on writing up a book on jet killers so I'll dump some more goodies here by weekend-sunday or so.

    E ~

    there were approximately 29 Me 262's and several Ar 234's destroyed as claims by RAF single engine fighters
     
  9. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Thanks Erich, appreciate you sharing them! :)
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I'd be interested in any info on the effectiveness of the .50 M23 incendairy round which was deployed in late 1944 or early 1945 specifically to kill the jets. It had a muzzle velocity of about 1100 m/s, weighed 34.5 grams (quite a bit less than the ~44 gram M8 API), almost 6 grams of IM28 (a more potent incendiary metal than IM11), but an effective range for incendiary effect of only about 500 feet.

    =S=

    Lunatic
     
  11. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    The one i know anything about is post war.

    Since the close of WWII Britian's Fleet air arm has shot down 25 enemy aircraft, and 24 of these were over the falklands, so where's the other one??

    Easy- over Korea. An FAA Hawker Sea Fury, the pilot of which i don't know, managed to shoot down a MiG-15..............
     
  12. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I heard of this too, anybody else got info :?:
     
  13. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    I *believe* the Fury was from 801 Sqn FAA. The carrier Im not sure of, although a rusty memory suggests it was Invincible or Illustrious. If anyone could correct/clarify, that would be cool!

    (Am technically revising for a continental philosophy exam at the moment, so dont have time for a full look-up! :oops:)
     
  14. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    From the Air War Museum website:

    "Sea Furies served extensively in the Korean War, operating from Royal Navy carriers HMS Glory, HMS Ocean and HMS Theseus, and Australian carrier HMAS Sydney. They usually paired with Fairey Fireflies for ground attack missions. The Sea Fury excelled in this role, often proving superior to the enemy’s modern jets. For example, on August 9, 1952, Royal Navy Lieutenant “Hoagy” Carmichael, flying a Sea Fury of HMS Ocean’s 802 Squadron, shot down a Soviet-built North Korean Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG 15, marking the first such kill by a piston-engined fighter, and the only air-to-air kill by a British pilot flying a British aircraft in the Korean War."
     
  15. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    I stand corrected...although I was almost right on the squadron! :p :lol:
     
  16. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Remember BT - almost only counts in horseshoes, handgranades, hatchetfights and nuclear war! :lol:
     
  17. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    :lol:

    good point......

    and thanks for the extra info..........
     
  18. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Well, not World War II, but . . .

    On 10 September 1952, Captain Jesse G. Folmar, USMC (VMA-312), in an F4U-4B (BuNo 62927) shot down a MiG-15 off the North Korean coast near Chinnampo. MiG pilot was seen to bail out, afire, and the MiG observed to crash into the sea. Moments later another MiG shot down Folmar. He bailed out and was rescued by a SAR plane, called by his wingman, Lieutenant Walter E Daniels, USMC, spending about eight minutes in the water.

    On 20 June 1965 a four-plane RESCAP division of VA-25 A-1H’s off USS Midway led by Lieutenant Commander Edwin Greenhouse, USN, was jumped by a North Vietnamese Mig-17 north of Thanh Hoa. Initiating a section-to-section “Thach Weave,” while running for the coast, they were able to sucker the MiG in close. Lieutenant Clinton Johnson, USNR, in BuNo 137523, and Lieutenant (jg) Charles W. Hartman, III, USN, in BuNo 139786, got the drop on MiG as it approached the other section and gunned it down in an head-on encounter. Each received ½ credit for the kill.

    On 9 October 1966 Lieutenant (jg) William T. Patton, USN, flying a VA-176 A-1H (BuNo 137543) in a four-plane RESCAP off USS Intrepid shot down an interfering MiG-17 near Hanoi. Kill was observed by his section leader, Lieutenant Peter Russell, USN.


    Regards,

    Rich
     
  19. Udet

    Udet Banned

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    With the sole exception of nine (9) guncamera shots from USA fighters i have i would say the bulk -if not all- of those jet claims filed by USAAF veterans are pure tales.

    The guncamera im referring to shows 9 jets indeed getting pounded by enemy fighters.

    Amazingly all nine shots i owe show the German jet at very low altitude with the undercarriage displayed for landing. In two of those shots you can clearly see the paved runway and even trucks in the back ground. In some others you can see trees, thickets, etc.

    Perhaps a few more jets damaged by a bomber box defensive barrage got intercepted and shot down, but the allied assertion of P-51s, P-47s or whatever plane managing to outfly the German jet is in my view a Grimm fairy tale.

    Also what i do find quite strange is the fact some Me262s were captured intact at the end of the war and no mock-dogfights involving the Schwalbe and the "perfect" P-51 were made to attempt proving the very common allied babbling saying that when the jet turned "it was piece of cake".

    Couldn´t it be the easiest and coolest way to show the world your alleged marvels such as the P-51 could deal with the Me262 in a dogfight?

    Make a mock-dogfight and have it filmed god damn it.

    Or perhaps such tests were carried out but the USAAF decided to either modify or conceal the actual outcome of such tests...who knows, they have done stuff like that. Why not to do it with the jet.

    "Oh, well...the machine surely was fast...but our gallant and honorable pilots could handle it with relative east...whenever it turned, we fried the hun..."

    Reminds me of the funny British testing of a captured Bf109G fitted with underwing gondola cannons to prove their Spitfire was "better".
    Not even when compared to the gondola equipped Bf109 G could the Spitfire prove any significant and defintive "superiority".
     
  20. wmaxt

    wmaxt Active Member

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    Udet,

    If the 262 pilot was on final or in a turn where the jet made a wider turn it is possible with a goog guess as to the destination an intercept could be accomplished. A lot also depends on awarness of the jet pilot and/or the situation of the jet, out of fuel, 1 engine out etc. When your on final and your out of gas your a sitting duck in every way!

    I've never heard or seen a pilots account that even hinted at out performing a jet of any kind at anytime. Always the account mentioned something that put the jet into the performance envelope of the piston engined fighter. Many were caught landing or taking off. Given the Flight time available to the 163 and 262 and the swarms of Allied fighters at the time and place the jet/rocket planes HAD to be used it was inviteable that it happened.

    wmaxt
     
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