Please, need some help on WWII Soviet painting scheme!

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by Aramis, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. Aramis

    Aramis Member

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    Hello, guys... I have some Soviet aircraft in my WWII/Korean War model collection. I have read somewhere that no VVS aircraft of WWII displayed the red star on the top of the wings. Now, I have these two models (P-39 Airacobra "White 1" flown by Grigoriy Dol'nikov and Ivan Babak; and Polykarpov I-16 Rata, probably flown by Capt. Boris Safonov) showing the red star on top. I found an artistic image of this I-16 in the internet displaying the red star on the top of the wing. So, I don't know what's the correct painting scheme of these airplanes. Can you experts out there help me on that? Thanks in advance.
     

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  2. r2800doublewasp

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  3. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting, I just flippped through my books and the only plane I can find an actual pic of with a red star on the wings was a trainer. All the others don't show it.
     
  4. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    Hmm, I'm not an expert but surely Soviet a/c carried the red star on upper surfaces to aid identification? Otherwise you'd end up with a lot of 'Red-on-Red' incidents involving friendlies bouncing each other...
     
  5. Aramis

    Aramis Member

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    Thanks. Yes, I did try WINGS PALETTE before. The Rata's profile you see up in this page was downloaded from that website. It does show the red star on the upper surface of Safonov's I-16. So, the info about VVS's painting schemes seems very confusing.
     
  6. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    #6 Wayne Little, Jul 29, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010
    Not all Russian/Soviet aircraft carried the Red Stars on the upper wings....you need to check references for your particular subject(s)

    ...and I wouldn't take Wings Palette as being gospel either....
     
  7. beaupower32

    beaupower32 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    This aircraft was piloted by Lt. N.M.Estyen and made a forced landing after being hit by AA fire near Utti air base in southern Finland on July 12, 1941. Many remains of this aircraft are still in the Vesivehmaa museum in Finland

    [​IMG]
    This aircraft was hit and wrecked on the ground by German forces in the first days of war. Its look is typical of prewar MiGs. The fuel tank looks exploded, but no traces of fire are visible.


    Here are a couple of pics showing the red star on top of the wing. The first one is hard to see cause of the damage from the landing, but its here.
     
  8. Aramis

    Aramis Member

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    Yes, that's right, Wayne. I found this interesting article about the recovery of a VVS Curtiss P-40 near Murmansk, Russia (P-40 Recovery in Russia). It's remarkable what they wrote at the end of the article: "red stars had also been applied over the fin/rudder and also to the underside of the wings. Interestingly, there were no red stars on the upper surface of the wings that were often applied on Lend-Lease aircraft".
     
  9. Aramis

    Aramis Member

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    Thanks, Beaupower! Very interesting photos!
     
  10. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    and after a brief search.....Safonovs White 11 did indeed have Red stars on the upper wings!:D
     
  11. Aramis

    Aramis Member

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    Wow! Thanks, Wayne! That's what I was looking for!
     
  12. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Your welcome!:D
     
  13. Aramis

    Aramis Member

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    I just found this online picture of a Soviet airacobra. As you see it also shows a red star on its upper wing.
    So, it makes me think that my model might be correct...
     

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  14. Bucksnort101

    Bucksnort101 Well-Known Member

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    Thank god he included pictures;)
     
  15. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #15 Wurger, Jul 29, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010
    The shot of the P-39 above was taken modernly and can't be a reliable example.

    According to my infos red stars on the upper wings were applied untill June 1941. So it seems it was quite common during the early stage of the war. Later, there weren't red stars painted on top wing surfaces . Instead of that the red stars appeared on fins.
    Concerning these Lend-Lease planes.... it seems that these red stars were applied on aircraft that had had RAF or the US national marking applied before delivering to USSR only. ALso it is possible Russians did that to make easier identification of planes that weren't made in USSR.
    So I agree with Wayne pictures of a particular plane are needed.

    Here a few examples I have found, including Safonov's I-16. Red Stars can be noticed easiy but on the early LaGG can't..
     

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  16. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    That's really intereseting, any idea why it was dropped?
     
  17. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Here is a set of pictures of the P39Q-15BE 44-291 that was found in one of Russian lakes in 2004. According to that the Red Star can be noticed on the underside of the starboard wing only.It was applied directly over the US Star. The marking can't bee seen on the top of the port wing.
     

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  18. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    And still in good condition, nice!
     
  19. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #19 Wurger, Jul 30, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
    Yep.... I think that these red stars were applied in many ways.These for aircraft of the early deliveries might have been omitted partially. It was because of the need of every plane at the front during the early stage of the war. As a result red stars were painted hurriedly and accidentally.ALso the lack of a red paint could have been the reason. Later, when the supplies of equipment were enough for Russians , red stars were applied on all planes. Here is a pic below showing P-39s at an airfield in Germany in 1945.Red stars can be seen clearly. Also on Alexander Pokryshkin's P-39.
    But please pay your attention to the P-39 on right to the one with stars.It seems there weren't stars on top wing surfaces.
     

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  20. Aramis

    Aramis Member

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    Wonderful, Wurger! Very clarifying. Thanks a lot.
     
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