Potential China military base in Solomons
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
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MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
As an Australian I have to ask you this question.
BACKGROUND - This current Australian government approved the 99 year lease of the Darwin port to the Chinese government under terms that mean that we will never own that port again because at the end of the lease we must repay to China every dollar spent on improvements.
Darwin would be the first port of call if China invaded Australia. Dump a dozen very large container ships of troops and equipment there and we are stuffed to put it politely.
Last year the same Aus government leased an island off the WA coast virtually next door to one of our major Navy bases.
SO QUESTION - If it is perfectly acceptable to lease Darwin and other Australian assets to the Chinese government and sell farms and companies to Chinese government entities, why is it not acceptable for other countries to make similar agreements with China.
EDIT added farms and factories etc
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MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
And the US has not had an Embassy or Consulate in the Solomon's for eons, even though Obama started the process while in office. No high level US official has visited Honiara for many years.
How can you influence a government when you do not even have a diplomatic presence there? How can you know what they are thinking and doing?
The Australian Ambassador has been in Aus for medical reasons for many months and we did not replace him. She'll be right mate, eh. He won't be back there for more months.
The US and Aus governments both only need to look in the mirror to see who is responsible.
wuzak
Captain
If I remember the timeline correctly, the sale of the port to the Chinese was a year or so after Obama had made the decision to base some US Marines in Darwin.
And it was around the same time that the Minister for Trade at the time concluded a Free Trade Agreement with China. That minister left politics shortly after the FTA and was hired as a part time consultant for the firm that bought the port.
Regarding foreign aid to the Solomons, that, I believe, had been reducing for several years. And much of it was what is known as "boomerang aid". The conditions of the aid meant that a large percentage of the money came back to Australia through contracts to Australian companies.
The Northern Territory government leased the Port of Darwin to Chinese interests, not the current or any other Federal government.
Any port is state run and the states have the right to do whatever they want to with them unless there is a security or defence concern raised.
The Department of Defence and ASIO raised no concerns over the lease so it went ahead.
Cockatoo island has been leased for 12 years to Hong Kong based company for mining. There is no navy base next door.
There is a ground forces training site which is sometimes used for up to three weeks of the year.
The current federal government has passed legislation which now allows the federal treasurer to veto leases in certain circumstances
but those made between Australian States and territories and private companies are not covered.
The federal government also now has the power to cancel any lease or arrangement should it be contrary to Australian security interests.
China is trying to get in to countries all over the place but their economy is starting to falter badly which means they, like the former USSR,
will most likely not be able to keep doing what they are at the moment.
Any port is state run and the states have the right to do whatever they want to with them unless there is a security or defence concern raised.
The Department of Defence and ASIO raised no concerns over the lease so it went ahead.
Cockatoo island has been leased for 12 years to Hong Kong based company for mining. There is no navy base next door.
There is a ground forces training site which is sometimes used for up to three weeks of the year.
The current federal government has passed legislation which now allows the federal treasurer to veto leases in certain circumstances
but those made between Australian States and territories and private companies are not covered.
The federal government also now has the power to cancel any lease or arrangement should it be contrary to Australian security interests.
China is trying to get in to countries all over the place but their economy is starting to falter badly which means they, like the former USSR,
will most likely not be able to keep doing what they are at the moment.
MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
I think you are right on the timeline.
According to Vote Compass 90% of Australians consider Aus has a corruption problem. Over 70% say it is serious or fairly serious. One party is totally against any anti corruption commission that can investigate politicians and political parties. The other major party helped totally eviscerate the South Australian ICAC so they are little better. So we have a choice between scum and scum
Would you rather the steel and cement and other raw materials were bought in Aus or China?
Would you prefer that the expert labour and managers were Australian or Chinese?
Etc?
I despise the term Boomerang Aid as I have seen too many utter bullshit "aid" programs in PNG. The World Bank gave millions for a specific road. It all went into corrupt politicians and their mates pockets and not one metre of new road was constructed. At least with most AusAid there is a useful outcome for the citizens as apposed to the politicians. The most expensive, but not the best by any means, road builder is owned by a former prime minister. Do you want your aid money going to him and his cronies or to Australian suppliers and experts who use and train local labour for all the unskilled and semi skilled work - and promote good workers and train them for better positions, including in Australia.
Some AusAid projects are bull but most are not. Unfortunately many good AusAid programs run for a couple of years and then, just when they are producing results, shut down.
I have also seen Chinese projects where the vast majority of the labour is Chinese, many who appear to be semi-educated peasants. The few nationals employed are treated like absolute shit and not even supplied basic hygiene and toilet facilities. One of our crew had to fly the management of one Chinese operation to a "negotiation" with locals. They flew in tables and chairs and magnificent food for the Chinese. They fed the nationals single serve cans of fish and a ships biscuit each, had to sit on the ground, and then harangued the shit out of them.
Do I despise Chinese? No. I have some good friends who are Chinese, some of them are fifth generation PNG citizens and others are first generation self employed. Like them I dislike and do not trust the majority of the "new Chinese". They are arrogant, ignorant *****. As always there are exceptions but I have found very few.
MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
Australia has a Foreign Investment Review Board who also approved it because the then Minister of Defense in the current Federal government allowed it to to go ahead without a single objection. They did have overriding power under the old legislation, and the new legislation is just a new paint job on the same pig.
One word from Defense and the deal would have been rejected. The minister either refused or failed to take any action
QED - the Fe
For those outside Australia - we have an Office of Legal Drafting and Office of Legal Council in Canberra who write all the legislation. There is one Aviation regulation that was rewritten over a dozen times in five years because every time they took someone to court the judge threw it out because the law was so badly written. My father in law was a senior magistrate and when I asked him to interpret the definition of an approved person into English he replied - a cat is something that looks like a cat, moves like a cat, makes noises like a cat and sleeps like a cat.
Their first edition regulation covering unapproved parts included a used part shall have affixed a label stating that it is new.
They repainted that pig several times as well.
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The Department of Defence were asked for their assessment and passed the deal.
The FIRB allowed it to go ahead as it covered their guidelines.
The nOrthern Territory government put the deal through, not the Federal government.
MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
RMIT fact check on the Federal governments claim they did not have the power to stop the Darwin deal
www.abc.net.au
Did Scott Morrison have 'no authority' to approve or reject the lease of the Port of Darwin?
Prime Minister Scott Morrison says the government had "no authority" to approve or reject the lease of the Port of Darwin to a Chinese company in 2015. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.
www.abc.net.au
That would be a good thing for the ABC if they had checked their facts. Scott Morrison wasn't prime minister until 2018 so who are theyRMIT fact check on the Federal governments claim they did not have the power to stop the Darwin deal
Did Scott Morrison have 'no authority' to approve or reject the lease of the Port of Darwin?
Prime Minister Scott Morrison says the government had "no authority" to approve or reject the lease of the Port of Darwin to a Chinese company in 2015. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.
fact checking anyway ?
MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
Warspiter
Please identify any paragraph in that article where it says that Morrison was PM in 2015.
Also read the photo heading that says Then US president Barack Obama expressed concern about the deal to then prime minister Malcolm Turnbull at the time.
Please identify any paragraph in that article where it says that Morrison was PM in 2015.
Also read the photo heading that says Then US president Barack Obama expressed concern about the deal to then prime minister Malcolm Turnbull at the time.
Wildcat
Major
Nothing wrong with foreign investment - it helps turn the wheels of the economy. I think the issue comes down to trust. Can we really take China's word at face value that they won't militarise the Solomons? Take a look at what they have done in the South China Sea, not only illegally claiming land that is not theirs (Hague's Court of Arbitration ruling against them) they have militarized islands and are depleting the area of fish. This impacts several countries that all have legitimate claims in the area. This mistrust is not confined to Australia. Remember the riots in the Solomons were triggered by Solgraves pivot to China - clearly, a portion of the population is not happy. Would we even be having this conversation if the deal was done with someone like Canada or New Zealand?
And why does the Solomons even need a security pact with China? Who do they need protection from? The South Pacific is a relatively peaceful area, the only country with any real military might is Australia - and I don't see us invading islands anytime soon. To me, it reeks of a corrupt autocrat in the making who wants backing and protection from the big boys. A man willing to sell out his countrymen for wealth and power.
And no, I don't think it's acceptable for the Chinese to lease or own strategic assets in Australia. Attitudes have hardened since the Darwin deal, however, I still think there is a lot of corruption at play in the upper levels of both major political parties here. I for one would love to know how many politicians have received "donations" from Chinese investors to approve leases and sales of Australian assets.
MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
I am not knocking foreign investment per se but that is a large part of the current governments bleating about the Solomons.
What I do object to is most Chinese investment. A very high percentage of that is approved by the FIRB with specific conditions that in many recorded cases are completely and totally ignored by the Chinese once the deal is approved. It may be that only a minute percentage of Chinese investors ignore their contracted conditions of purchase but unfortunately the FIRB does not publish such data.
What the available data does show is that in multiple cases purchases of farms, water, companies and other assets result in the conditions of purchase being totally ignored.
Given that history, I severely doubt that China has any intention of keeping any promises to any one.
Or, to put it more simply - China honours contracts with Australians in the same manner that they honoured the contract of Hong Kong's special status with the British.
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Thumpalumpacus
Captain
Speaking as an American with no dog in this kerfuffle, I wouldn't trust the PRC as far as I could throw the entire nation -- against the wind.
MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
With one hand tied behind your back?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
What are the signs on the Chinese vessels communicating?
你船侵入我国领海。要求你船立即离开。
Your ship enters our territorial waters. We request your ship to leave immediately.
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