Question on M.S.406

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by rousseau, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. rousseau

    rousseau Member

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    Sorry for such question maybe stupid, but I really want to know it.

    Some aeroplane equipped engine same as Morane-Saulnier 406 like Dewoitine 520, but I saw a tiny inlet is very closely behind the propeller on M.S. 406. which cause the engine nacelle of M.S.406 looks like a beer belly.
    So there is my question, why the engine nacelle of M.S.406 is so ugly? what's the tiny inlet work for?

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Clay_Allison

    Clay_Allison Active Member

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    All around that may be the ugliest monoplane of the war outside of Poland's parasol-winged joke and the sad stupid-looking P-26 Peashooter.
     
  3. Fokker D21

    Fokker D21 Member

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    First of all questions are never stupid, not asking is.

    If you are referring to the small intake just below the propeller, it is the oil cooler (Radiateur d'huile) which is located directly underneath the forward part of the engine.
     
  4. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    G'day rousseau.

    I agree with "Fokker D21," the oil cooler. A couple of pics to help identify your "beer belly"...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Milos Sijacki

    Milos Sijacki Member

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    Nice pics. Agree with You guys, OIL COOLER.

    As long as we are talking about this plane, can someone tell me what was its combat history and what was it like in combat?

    Cheers
     
  6. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    Off topic but...
    What's wrong with the P-26? Was there anything better during 1933 when the P-26 first entered service with the U.S. Army Air Corps?
     
  7. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    The French had more of these than anything else at the outbreak of war, the contract was placed in early 1938 and production started in late 1938.

    The first example flew 70 years ago today!

    By the start of hostilities they had about 550 on strength.
    It didn't fare well against the Luftwaffe, the Bf109 outclassed it. It was underpowered at around 300mph and despite the presence of the 20mm cannon was weakly armed. In the short war for the French, just under 400 were lost to about 180 kills in return.
    The Luftwaffe themselves took on the remainder of the MS406 fighters, using it for training and I've seen box-art suggesting it was used in combat (Revell 1/32 Supermarine Seafire smoking a Morane-Saulnier 406 in Luftwaffe colours) but I'm not suggesting for a minute that that is a reliable source.
    Foreign buyers and benefactors seemed to do better with the type than France did, the Finns used it in their war and one of their aces achieved over a dozen kills in a 406.
     
  8. Captain Dunsel

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    As DaveBender said about the P-26. Likewise, the PZL's were the hottest thing in the skies when they came out. The PZL-24 was faster than the Gladiators, for example, and much better armed.

    The Poles and Greeks (plus others) did pretty well with the PZL series.

    Oh, and how about the Peashooters that saw combat with China and in the Phillipines?

    CD
     
  9. Fokker D21

    Fokker D21 Member

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    I wonder why the MS 406 had a semi retractable radiator. Was it supposed to boost speed under certain conditions?
     
  10. Venganza

    Venganza Member

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    Probably, to reduce drag under certain flight regimes. And let's face it, the M.S. 406 needed all the help it could get.

    Venganza
     
  11. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    MS 406s under Finnish control enjoyed considerable success. They were also used in some numbers by the Turks and the Swiss.

    From memorythe french lost about 200 in the air (and many more on the ground) whilst achieving about 100 Kills themselves....not an impressive record. I think around 450 were lost during the BOF.

    Three (I think) were shipped to Indochina, where they fought in the war with Siam in 1940-41. They appear to have held their own against the H-75 (N) and Hawks of the RTAF
     
  12. Venganza

    Venganza Member

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    Parsifal, didn't the Finns re-engine or modify them in some way to make them more effective? I remember they called some of theirs the "Morko-Morane". Were these the modified versions?

    Venganza
     
  13. Marshall_Stack

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    Interesting idea. I guess this is used in lieu of cowl flaps?
     
  14. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    Britain fought an undeclared war against France from July 1940 onward. The USA joined the fight against France during the fall of 1942. How did the Ms.406 fare in places like Dakar, Syria, Morocco, Algeria and Madagascar?
     
  15. Milos Sijacki

    Milos Sijacki Member

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    Thanks for the info Colin1.
     
  16. Clay_Allison

    Clay_Allison Active Member

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    they put captured Klimov engines in them.
     
  17. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    Juha will know the exact progress of this much publicised mod. i am not sure when this happened, and to how many airframes it was done on....but the change in engine brougt about a sizable increase in performance.

    The fundamental problem with the Morane was its lack of power. Without the HPs it could not ship adequate armament, protection, and was always struggling performance wise. But there was nothing inhernetly wrong with the airframe, or the aircraft as a concept.
     
  18. Venganza

    Venganza Member

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    Thank you for the info, Clay and Parsifal! It seems that lack of power was the downfall of many planes. It reminds me of the Macchi C.200 - a good airframe with a bulky, low-power radial. When they put a DB in it, it turned out quite nicely as the M.C.202, and even better when developed into the M.C.205.

    Venganza
     
  19. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    Therer was one unit of MS 406's in the Levant as of March 1940, however at this stage I can find no evidence of the type being present in April 1941.

    The french did not view kindly the failure of the Morane over France in 1940, and were not keen to incorporate it into the post-armistice air force. severely restricted in size, it appears that the major fighter elements of the Vichy air force were the D 520s, H-75s and MB 152s that had survived. There is also some evidence of some post armistice D 520s and MB 155s being received by the Vichy air force

    The air fighting over the Levant is nevertheless interesting. The French fielded 279 aircraft for this campaign, including 35 D 520s, and an indeterminate number of Martin 167s. At first they did quite well, but RAAF 3 sqn also acquitted itself pretty well, flying P-40B Tomahawks (I think it was B)

    Tomahawks of No. 3 Squadron, Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), took part in the first attack on June 8, helping to destroy a Dewoitine D.520 fighter and damage three others at Rayak airfield. Elsewhere on that same day, two of No. 250 Squadron’s Tomahawks drew first blood for the P-40 in the air when they shot down an Italian Cant Z.1007bis reconnaissance plane five miles northwest of Alexandria, Egypt. The Vichy French put up a spirited fight before finally signing an armistice on July 14, but the Tomahawks of No. 3 Squadron RAAF also acquitted themselves well, holding their own against France’s top-of-the-line D.520s and shooting down two out of eight German Junkers Ju-88As of II Gruppe, Lehrgeschwader 1, operating from Crete, that tried to interfere with British landings on the Levantine coast on June 12.
     
  20. rousseau

    rousseau Member

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    to be grateful to all of gentleman here.
    regrettably, my question is not end.
    Nolessthan three sort of airplanes in the period of WW2 is also use same engine as M.S.406, Dewoitine 520,Arsenal VG.33, and Rogozarski IK-3 for example.
    Why I can not see this oil cooler inlet on these airplanes? Does these airplane's axletree not need lube to refrigerate?
     
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