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Given the choice, I'd take a P-40 100 times out of 100 over the M.S.406. It had more power, more armament, and was far far tougher. The P-40 killed a lot of 109Es before the 109F established a clear advantage.I don't think its that bad a plane, the thing when comparing the early war fighters that comes to mind is just how much better the Me109 and Spitfire was compared to rest of its competition. If you consider the designs coming from the US and other parts of Europe (excepting maybe the D.520) it was probably on par!
I don't think it's fair compare MS 406 with P-40, and some of the others indicated to parsifal, at time a year it's a long time.
take out development, first production MS 406 flying january '39, first P-40 april '40, first P-43 may '41, F4F-3 february '40, IK 3 july '40, IAR 80 january '41, A6M january '40, Ki-43 april '41, D. 520 november '39, Lagg february '41, MiG autumn '40 and same for the Yak
Hi Vincenzo
I do basically accept what you are saying, however, note this, in Septmeber 1939, there were less than 70 moranes operational in the French AF. This is despite the fact that they had a two year headstart on most of the types I have mentioned. i know it unfair to compare an a/c developed basically 1935-6 to a/c developed 1939-40, but thats the result of the French aeronautical industry being so innefficient at the time, not because I wanted to make an unfair comparison
Parsifal, didn't the Finns re-engine or modify them in some way to make them more effective? I remember they called some of theirs the "Morko-Morane". Were these the modified versions?
Venganza
Yes, they re-engined some with a Klimov 105 I think, and used Russian propellers. Top speed did not improve much, but the Morko (Ghost) could climb over 4,000 ft per minute.
Saddest part of all is that the plane was originally designed with a one-piece wing and retractable undercarriage....and the sad stupid-looking P-26 Peashooter.
Nice pics. Agree with You guys, OIL COOLER.
As long as we are talking about this plane, can someone tell me what was its combat history and what was it like in combat?
Cheers
Klimov M-105P was a derivative of the Hispano 12Y motor so it was a natural transition. At around 90cm boost (1.2atm) it's got similar output as the early Merlins (ca.1150hp WEP, 1100 military) and is rated for basic 80-87 octane. From what I've read Soviet fuel quality was poor in 1940-1. Two speed supercharger gives good performance at 1000 and 3000 metres but it performs poorly above 4000 metres and has no automatic boost regulation.
The M-105PF (ca.1320hp WEP, 1260 military) was a recalibration for high fuel grade (100 octane) with 110cm maximum boost iirc (1.47atm). No other modifications were made to the basic engine.
Boost calibration for the M-105 continued to be adjusted as Soviet fuel quality improved later in the war. By 1943 boost was up to 115cm (PF2 motor) and finally in 1945 to something like 118cm (PF3 motors fitted to Yak-3), for a final return of some 1360hp military (2600rpm) and ca.1430hp WEP (2800-3000rpm) for a minute or two.
False, the 3Б-78 (and 4Б-78 used on M-82) soviet fuels always had 93-95 (and 95-96) o. number from 1939, with some quality fall to 91-92 in some midwar deliveries.All of these are basically the same engine with the same supercharger and anciliaries (I think the PF3 made some other changes so is kind of a hybrid with some VK-107 parts), the only major difference between M-105P, PF and PF2 motors is essentially boost recalibration for different fuel qualities and later towards the end of '42 improved pistons were fitted.
Klimov motors captured during 1941 will invariably be M-105P, the PF started to appear after July '42 but the Leningrad front was very quick to adopt these, later series LaGG were flown sometimes straight from the factory without so much as a paintjob to the area. And existing 105P were recalibrated from this time at the field.
There were problems with the lend lease Hurricanes and Merlin engines had to be derated during '41 to use local fuel. Also they had to be drained of all fluids and serviced using local products or else they stopped working when temperatures plummetted. Some were just stripped of their armoured seats and radios so these could be fitted to local a/c like the LaGG and Il2.
Given the timescale of captured M-105 motors fitted to Finnish Moranes I'd have thought the PF motor was most likely, only training sqns would have the P because its recalibration was very simple and could be performed in the field, essentially once the authorisation for higher boost was given in mid-42 everybody ran around recalibrating their existing aircraft, as well as all new models coming from the factory featured the new boost calibration. The transition of 105P to PF was essentially only one of fuel quality.
The Morane is much like a Hurricane in build, being mixed construction and designed in that era. I guess fitting one with a ~1300hp Klimov makes it fairly similar to a MkII with poorer altitude performance. It's a bit of a jump from the 12Y31 in the MS.406 in any case, which is roughly a ~900hp motor.
I think of the Klimov as very much like an Allison in the P-40, generally underrated because of its altitude performance but otherwise actually a very contemporary high performance aero engine.