Well considering I only in my late 30's, and my wife is pregnant, I am sure I can too. So yeah, no offense taken...
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At least I can still get a h-rd on...just kidding so don't take it personal!
Hey Darren, I meant they turned too wide. The lighter A6Ms had a better radius, they could turn inside the heavier F6Fs.Hi VBF, I like a lot of what you are saying here but I think you meant to say that it couldn't roll very well. The Hellcat was one of the better turning aircraft of the war.
Well considering I only in my late 30's, and my wife is pregnant, I am sure I can too. So yeah, no offense taken...
Hey Darren, I meant they turned too wide. The lighter A6Ms had a better radius, they could turn inside the heavier F6Fs.
Working from this, what was the normal behaviour when a fighter was hit? My feeling is that any pilot, no matter how robust his machine, when hit is going to remove himself from the fight as soon as possible. I really can't see an F6F pilot getting a couple of hits from a A6M and thinking "Hey, it's just a Zeke, I'll carry on because I'm in a tougher machine". The crippling hit on an A6M's wing is going to be no more terminal in the immediate case than the same hit on an F6F's wing.Plus, the F6Fs could take more punishment. Just wing an A6M, it's a cripple.
True but things work a little differently. If an aircraft is hit and on fire the pilot will normally bale out. However with the difference in fire power and construction statistically the Zeke was much more likely to be hit and catch fire for many reasons.Working from this, what was the normal behaviour when a fighter was hit? My feeling is that any pilot, no matter how robust his machine, when hit is going to remove himself from the fight as soon as possible. I really can't see an F6F pilot getting a couple of hits from a A6M and thinking "Hey, it's just a Zeke, I'll carry on because I'm in a tougher machine". The crippling hit on an A6M's wing is going to be no more terminal in the immediate case than the same hit on an F6F's wing.
Working from this, what was the normal behaviour when a fighter was hit? My feeling is that any pilot, no matter how robust his machine, when hit is going to remove himself from the fight as soon as possible. I really can't see an F6F pilot getting a couple of hits from a A6M and thinking "Hey, it's just a Zeke, I'll carry on because I'm in a tougher machine". The crippling hit on an A6M's wing is going to be no more terminal in the immediate case than the same hit on an F6F's wing.
These Meatballs were built for one thing, offense. At their altitude, they dominated. It took the element of surprise and some slick tactics and skills for the F4Fs to just stay with them. But therein was their vulnerability, too...Working from this, what was the normal behaviour when a fighter was hit? My feeling is that any pilot, no matter how robust his machine, when hit is going to remove himself from the fight as soon as possible. I really can't see an F6F pilot getting a couple of hits from a A6M and thinking "Hey, it's just a Zeke, I'll carry on because I'm in a tougher machine". The crippling hit on an A6M's wing is going to be no more terminal in the immediate case than the same hit on an F6F's wing.
Gentlemen,
I put together a spreadsheet of P-38 victories by the 5th and 13th Air Forces by month and Squadrons. To determine what Squadrons were operational, I used the books Lockheed P-38 Lightning by Jerry Scutts and P-38 Lightning Aces of the Pacific and CBI by John Stanaway. For victory credits, I used USAF Study 85. I know that Study 85 has its problems, but that is the best I have.
I come up with about 350 credits by the 5th and 13th Air Forces in the time frame December 1942 thru the end of August 1943.
Any corrections or additions are welcomed.
Eagledad
Lt. Nishizawa, one of Japan's leading aces, accrued all of his victories in the A6M - right through 1944 with an A6M5 attached to the 201st Kōkūtai.
Two days before his death, he downed two F6Fs and in a twist of irony, Hellcats from VF-14 downed the KI-49 transport he was aboard, ober Mindoro Island, as they were being transported to Luzon for replacement A6Ms.
So this will add gravity to the argument that the Zero may have been dated, but in the hands of a skilled pilot, was still to be respected.
In regards to damage to an aircraft, breaches in the skin will disrupt the airflow, causing drag. Bullet holes may not cause much drag, but cannon rounds were known to rip large holes in an aircraft's surface. The more damage, the higher the drag. Add to that, damage to aerleron surfaces will diminish the aircraft's handling. Damage to an oil-cooled aircraft can often obscure the pilot's view by covering the windscreen and canopy surfaces, making flight extremely difficult, not to mention the potential for the engine to overheat and seize within a certain amount of time.
So it all depends on the aircraft type, the extent of damage, where the battle is commencing and who's flying it...
I come up with about 350 credits by the 5th and 13th Air Forces in the time frame December 1942 thru the end of August 1943.
I speak from experience when I say that the Japanese fighters that we encountered over Saipan on 29 May, 1944 were much more aggressive than any we met thereafter. I was a belly turret gunner on a Navy PB4Y1.I'll go back to the start of this one. According to the pilots we see every month at the Planes of Fame, the Hellcat DID break the back of the Japanese because, for the first time, we had a plane that could out-climb the Zero and almost turn with it even when the Zero was at it's best turn rate. If the Zero was NOT at its best turn rate, the Hellcat could turn with or out-turn the Zero.
This does NOTHING to diminish the accomplishments of the F4F and P-38 pilots who went before the Hellcat, but they did NOT wipe out all the Japanese Navy's best pilots. Many were still there even through the end of the war. Just not as many as they started with. You could not convince Boyington or others I spoke with they were shot down by rookies.
When the Hellcat arrived, it was faster than the Zero, could out-accelerate it, out-climb it, was adequately armed, had pilots that were well-trained even if not quite hard-bitten veterans, and could linger to the point that fuel was not an issue in combat for either side. That last means both sides could stand and fight or run away if possible. It wasn't like the Germans over the UK where they had only a few minutes before they had to leave or run out of fuel on the way home. Also, the US Navy tended for fly in groups of 4 or 8 (one or two flights), much as the Japanese did, and most of the engagements were of the 4 vs. 4, 4 vs. 8, or 8 vs. 8 variety where neither side was really outnumbered so badly that many had a great chance of escape if only by virtue of the sheer number of targets in the sky. Instead, the targets were few enough that a good, solid dogfight was the order of the day a LOT of the time versus the ETO.
This put the Japanese at a distinct disadvantage for the first time since the Hellcat was a MUCH better dogfighter than either the P-38 or the F4F. The Hellcat was a VERY good fighter and would have acquitted itself well anywhere. In a dogfight, top speed is not important. What IS important is maneuverability, acceleration, behavior around stall, and armament. Top speed is great for getting into or out of a fight, and for catching up to a target fleeing without regard to anyone following, but is NOT an important dogfight variable otherwise. That from veterans, not from me. I have heard that from maybe 30 WWII pilots who fought in the PTO. The guys who loved top speed were ETO guys who could dive on someone from 25,000 feet or who were chasing Bf 109s and Fw 190s that dived through the bomber formations from above. Not from guys flying Hellcats at 3,500 feet on combat air patrol around a carrier task force. The PTO was a much lower-altitude war than the ETO because the ocean has very few mountains sticking up out of it. And ... if your engine got quiet, altitude wasn't usually going to allow you land on a carrier. It was usually ditch or nylon letdown time regardless of altitude.
Many in here will disagree, but I go with the guys who were there and flew the planes. ALL the pilots who fly them LOVE the Hellcat for it's handling and forgiving characteristics at all speeds. As the old saying goes, "Ask the guy who flies one!"
At warbird gatherings where veterans show up, the Hellcat gets a LOT of respect.
Luca Ruffato in Eagles of the Southern Skies remarks that damaged Zeros of the Tainan Kokutai usually returned with one or two bullet holes, or they didn't return at all. He also quotes Sakai Saburo about the damage inflicted on a G4M that made an emergency landing at Lea after an attack on Port Moresby. Pretty gruesome.Lt. Nishizawa, one of Japan's leading aces, accrued all of his victories in the A6M - right through 1944 with an A6M5 attached to the 201st Kōkūtai.
Two days before his death, he downed two F6Fs and in a twist of irony, Hellcats from VF-14 downed the KI-49 transport he was aboard, ober Mindoro Island, as they were being transported to Luzon for replacement A6Ms.
So this will add gravity to the argument that the Zero may have been dated, but in the hands of a skilled pilot, was still to be respected.
In regards to damage to an aircraft, breaches in the skin will disrupt the airflow, causing drag. Bullet holes may not cause much drag, but cannon rounds were known to rip large holes in an aircraft's surface. The more damage, the higher the drag. Add to that, damage to aerleron surfaces will diminish the aircraft's handling. Damage to an oil-cooled aircraft can often obscure the pilot's view by covering the windscreen and canopy surfaces, making flight extremely difficult, not to mention the potential for the engine to overheat and seize within a certain amount of time.
So it all depends on the aircraft type, the extent of damage, where the battle is commencing and who's flying it...