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- #21
RAAF 22 Squadron: some pictures, logbooks etc
- Thread starter Jemm
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Pete , just reaslised after looking again that if those two shots were taken in Feb 43, it would have been before the 9th, when it went missing. Narrows the window somewhat....
I have photocopies from the AWM of "daily operations" which has who went out where and in what plane on any given day. it's a really bad photocopy but it says:
.....nothing of any use to us. Great. I photocopied the page from 8th to 15th feb. Didn't do the week before. However, there were "nil operations" on the 8th which narrows it down to 1st - 7th Feb, unless of course that was taken the actual day it went missing..... makes me feel slightly ill actually,. looking at those and knowing what may have been about to happen.....
I have photocopies from the AWM of "daily operations" which has who went out where and in what plane on any given day. it's a really bad photocopy but it says:
.....nothing of any use to us. Great. I photocopied the page from 8th to 15th feb. Didn't do the week before. However, there were "nil operations" on the 8th which narrows it down to 1st - 7th Feb, unless of course that was taken the actual day it went missing..... makes me feel slightly ill actually,. looking at those and knowing what may have been about to happen.....
A4K
Colonel
Kind of puts it all in perspective dosen't it? Not just 'Cool! a Boston!', but reminds you that there were people manning that thing, who had to take it to hell and hopefully back...
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- #24
Yeah...maybe I should scan and upload the "we regret to inform you" telegram.....
The old bloke - Mr Hambly- whom I spoke to 5 -odd years ago, said they actually lost a few planes on take off. They had trouble figuring out what was going wrong until they discovered that wasps were making nests in a bit of wiring on (I think he said) the tail which was responsible for measuring speed.(?? Hope that's right, I am going from memory) The mud nests in the wiring resulted in inaccurate readings and as a result the pilots would fail to make successful take-offs. Some of them exploded on the airstrip as they were laden with bombs. Awful way to go.
The old bloke - Mr Hambly- whom I spoke to 5 -odd years ago, said they actually lost a few planes on take off. They had trouble figuring out what was going wrong until they discovered that wasps were making nests in a bit of wiring on (I think he said) the tail which was responsible for measuring speed.(?? Hope that's right, I am going from memory) The mud nests in the wiring resulted in inaccurate readings and as a result the pilots would fail to make successful take-offs. Some of them exploded on the airstrip as they were laden with bombs. Awful way to go.
ozhawk40
Master Sergeant
Hi Jemm
The photo was definitely not taken on the 9th. The photo shows at least a six ship formation, and only five were sent out on that fateful day. There is also a discrepancy on location also. A sift though the Operational Record Book may uncover some possibilities for the exact date as you suggest. All the RAAF Unit History sheets for 22 Squadron are actually available on the web in digital form at the National Archives. You can look at them anytime. National Archives of Australia and do a record search for "RAAF Unit History sheets 22 Squadron". You can also search for further details of your Uncle's service history and his loss.
The latest likely date for the photo is actually 30 Jan, I think as all later attacks are less than six ships. Here the operations sheet.
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Wildcat
Major
G'day pete and Jemm. My take on the photo's Pete posted are that the aircraft DU-P shown is not A28-14 but most likely a replacement aircraft given the "P" identification letter after the first one was lost. My reasons -
A28-14 was lost in Feb 43, note pictures and film clips of 22sqn Bostons participating in the Battle of the Bismarck Sea in March, almost a month after -14 was lost, none at that stage have the DU squadron codes as shown in Pete's photos.
Secondly, if Pete's pics were taken over Cape Hoskins which is on the North coast of New Britain, this would most likely be some time after July 43 when the squadron was either based on Goodenough Is or Kiriwina. Again this is many months after A28-14 was lost. Prior to the squadron's move to Goodenough Is, Their area of ops seemed to be focused in the Lae, Buna and Salamua areas. I doubt the Bostons could hit targets on the North coast of New Britain from their base at Wards in Port Moresby.
Just some thoughts..
A28-14 was lost in Feb 43, note pictures and film clips of 22sqn Bostons participating in the Battle of the Bismarck Sea in March, almost a month after -14 was lost, none at that stage have the DU squadron codes as shown in Pete's photos.
Secondly, if Pete's pics were taken over Cape Hoskins which is on the North coast of New Britain, this would most likely be some time after July 43 when the squadron was either based on Goodenough Is or Kiriwina. Again this is many months after A28-14 was lost. Prior to the squadron's move to Goodenough Is, Their area of ops seemed to be focused in the Lae, Buna and Salamua areas. I doubt the Bostons could hit targets on the North coast of New Britain from their base at Wards in Port Moresby.
Just some thoughts..
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Pete, wow, I didn't know those "daily operations" were available online. Thanks. When I still lived in Canberra I spent hours at the AWM Research centre staring at old records on microfish (fishe? fisch? whatever..).
You all know so much more than me - I really appreciate all comments and pics. Cheers.
Jemm (Off to the national archives website)
You all know so much more than me - I really appreciate all comments and pics. Cheers.
Jemm (Off to the national archives website)
ozhawk40
Master Sergeant
Andy you just maybe right about that. The location and Op Record don't add up. I'll do some more checking and relay that back to the museum.
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Heinz
Captain
Fantastic stuff Andy and Peter!
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Wildcat
Major
Jemm have you got The Bill Newton biography by Mark Weate? Not a bad read IMO.
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- #32
Wildcat
Major
Good luck with the move Jemm, I'm sure you'll like the book when you get it.
Pete, I was having alook through some of my notes on 22sqn Ops, and have come up with a possible date for your pics. On 21-12-43, 7 Bostons carried out a strike on the airstrip at Cape Hoskins. This is when the squadron was based on Kiriwina, and as much as I can see, was the largest strike the squadron made against Cape Hoskins strip. The aircraft which took part were -
A28-5 DU-F
A28-6 DU-G
A28-11 DU-M
A28-23 ?
A28-24 DU-P **
A28-28 DU-U
A28-30 DU-W
Note that some of these can be made out in your photos.
If you look at page 271 of the ORB, it states photos are to be taken of the attack and that the bombs were released close to the tree line in an attempt to hit the dispersal areas. Again this ties in with your pics.
I'll be interested to see what you come up with.
Pete, I was having alook through some of my notes on 22sqn Ops, and have come up with a possible date for your pics. On 21-12-43, 7 Bostons carried out a strike on the airstrip at Cape Hoskins. This is when the squadron was based on Kiriwina, and as much as I can see, was the largest strike the squadron made against Cape Hoskins strip. The aircraft which took part were -
A28-5 DU-F
A28-6 DU-G
A28-11 DU-M
A28-23 ?
A28-24 DU-P **
A28-28 DU-U
A28-30 DU-W
Note that some of these can be made out in your photos.
If you look at page 271 of the ORB, it states photos are to be taken of the attack and that the bombs were released close to the tree line in an attempt to hit the dispersal areas. Again this ties in with your pics.
I'll be interested to see what you come up with.
ozhawk40
Master Sergeant
Cheers Andy
I haven't looked too hard at this point, so you are a little ahead of me. You could bend a few more Banana's while you wait!
"Frend Bilong Australia Tru" (Gary Byk) has this to say: -
"On the 21 December seven Bostons struck at Hoskin's Strip. They were escorted by Kittyhawks as top cover. This mission was very successful. During the attack four Vals were seen in the circuit area waiting to land, but they quickly withdrew to cloud cover when the Bostons approached. Some six and twelve hour time bombs were dropped. "
Also in the book is another shot of a28-24 showing the rudder. Interesting is the wear and damage repair which shows as a circular mark just to the left of the upper hinge. This repair is also present in the other photo, so I am reasonably sure that it is in fact 24 in the first two pics. The dates 24 was with the squadron also narrow down the possibility further that the date is 21/12/1943.
Still looking for 14!
Cheers
Peter
I haven't looked too hard at this point, so you are a little ahead of me. You could bend a few more Banana's while you wait!
"Frend Bilong Australia Tru" (Gary Byk) has this to say: -
"On the 21 December seven Bostons struck at Hoskin's Strip. They were escorted by Kittyhawks as top cover. This mission was very successful. During the attack four Vals were seen in the circuit area waiting to land, but they quickly withdrew to cloud cover when the Bostons approached. Some six and twelve hour time bombs were dropped. "
Also in the book is another shot of a28-24 showing the rudder. Interesting is the wear and damage repair which shows as a circular mark just to the left of the upper hinge. This repair is also present in the other photo, so I am reasonably sure that it is in fact 24 in the first two pics. The dates 24 was with the squadron also narrow down the possibility further that the date is 21/12/1943.
Still looking for 14!
Cheers
Peter
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Sydhuey
Airman
There is a history with missidentified photos with 22 Sqn Bostons the sqn operated 69 Bostons approx 48 of them on operations, the aircraft up till mid 1943 were identified by a single code letter after mid 1943 the DU Sqn code was added so as a rough guide any photo with the single code letter I call the Port Morseby era after the move to Goodenough island the a/c ran the 3 letter code system .
The attached photo is from AIRCRAFT MARKINGS OF THE RAAF 1939-1945 Pentland.
This photo has been used in many books and articles on Bostons and the RAAF over the years and the text is all wrong, the classic missconception is Bill Newton ditched in A28-3 DU-Y and much has been said about this a/c and models have been made of A28-3 DU-Y, Bill Newton ditched in A28-3 "C", DU-Y is A28-18,and the text because it presumes that A28-3 is DU-Y the photo was taken before the end of Mar 43 as A28-3 was lost, this photo was taken on 24 March 1944 as 8 Bostons form up over Kiriwina for a raid on tracks between Gogosi-Kiava and Bialla plantations, this photo was easy to identify as it was one of the few times 8 Bostons went on a raid together 3-6 was a much more common number of a/c on a raid.
the a/c in the photo are
A28-5 DU-F DB-7B
A28-7 DU-H DB-7B
A28-9 DU-K DB-7B
A28-10 DU-L DB-7B
A28-18 DU-Y DB-7B (returned to 22 Sqn Jan 44 after rebuild at 3AD after crash Rockhampton Sep 43 note DF antenna fitted during rebuild not common on the original DB-7B's)
A28-25 DU-N A-20C
A28-28 DU-U A-20C
A28-30 DU-W A-20C
The attached photo is from AIRCRAFT MARKINGS OF THE RAAF 1939-1945 Pentland.
This photo has been used in many books and articles on Bostons and the RAAF over the years and the text is all wrong, the classic missconception is Bill Newton ditched in A28-3 DU-Y and much has been said about this a/c and models have been made of A28-3 DU-Y, Bill Newton ditched in A28-3 "C", DU-Y is A28-18,and the text because it presumes that A28-3 is DU-Y the photo was taken before the end of Mar 43 as A28-3 was lost, this photo was taken on 24 March 1944 as 8 Bostons form up over Kiriwina for a raid on tracks between Gogosi-Kiava and Bialla plantations, this photo was easy to identify as it was one of the few times 8 Bostons went on a raid together 3-6 was a much more common number of a/c on a raid.
the a/c in the photo are
A28-5 DU-F DB-7B
A28-7 DU-H DB-7B
A28-9 DU-K DB-7B
A28-10 DU-L DB-7B
A28-18 DU-Y DB-7B (returned to 22 Sqn Jan 44 after rebuild at 3AD after crash Rockhampton Sep 43 note DF antenna fitted during rebuild not common on the original DB-7B's)
A28-25 DU-N A-20C
A28-28 DU-U A-20C
A28-30 DU-W A-20C
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Jemm, I have only just found this website. Finding it was prompted by me wanting to know more about the fate of my great-uncle and his fellow crew members on 9 February 1943 after visiting the Australian War Memorial in Canberra this week. My great-uncle was Francis "Colin" Gordon (whom I was named after - 'Col') who of course flew with your uncle Bill Hall in this aircraft and so has also been missing since 9 February 1943. For all my life (I'm 57) it has always been a family mystery and an unanswered question as to what happened to their aircraft, and them, so to find this website with your incredible research is astounding to me after all these years. But Jemm, there may even be more to this, but admittedly a very long bow is being drawn by me here ... 'Col' was actually my 'half' great uncle as his mother, Florence (nee Strickfuss), was firstly married to a man by the name of Hall, was then divorced from him and remarried Frank Gordon (Col's father) in 1918/19/20. Her ex-husband, Mr Hall, according to family folklore, moved to Ipswich where I know your uncle was from. Is it possible there could be a connection there between your uncle Bill and my (half) great-uncle Col, one they may not even have realised? If so, or not, they are together forever it seems ... some pictures attached - The Aust War memorial wall, Col's school tribute plaque, Col's Port Moresby memorial certificate. I can be contacted via my e-mail. Regards ...
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Oh, I forgot to mention ... my great grandmother, Florence (mentioned above) had a daughter, Merle, my grandmother, to Mr Hall, so 'Col' was her half-brother, and Mr Hall is my Great Grandfather. If "Mr Hall" then bore your uncle, we could even be possibly distantly related??? Spooky really ....
