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This is a "what if" so different choices can be made but they would have had to have been made at appropriate times in order to take effect.
14th May 1939, first flight by Short Stirling.
25th July 1939, first flight by Manchester.
13th August 1939, first flight by Warwick.
25th October 1939, first flight by Halifax.
25th November 1940, first flight by a Mosquito
8th September 1941, first flight by Mosquito MK IV bomber.
More twins to CC in 1940-41 would have done about as well as more 4 engine bombers.
The mid Atlantic gap didn't really exist until later. The Germans didn't have that many long range boats and they could hunt the closer range waters almost as easy until better escorts and air patrols drove them to safer waters (mid Atlantic). Improve things around the British Isles first, then worry about mid Atlantic gap.
Lancaster was a modified Manchester so at least some of the factory infrastructure was in place. Conversion to Lancaster was not quite as hard as tooling up for an all new design.9 January 1941, first flight of the Lancaster. And that went on to become the mainstay of BC. Had they wished to change approach, it could have been done. Not to mention that with the appalling loss rate (IIRC around 7% on average, meaning a heavy bomber lasted on average only about 10 missions before being shot down) they needed to produce a huge number of them just to keep the fleet numbers up. With the much lower loss rate of the Mossie (or something similar), a correspondingly lower rate of production would have been needed to keep the force numbers.
true but the main point is that the Mosquito only held 2000lbs of bombs inside (and a pair of 500lbs outside) until 1944, plans had started earlier.
This is rather late to change major bombing strategy. It took several years to decide on which planes to use, build the appropriate factories and build the appropriate engine factories and so on.
This is a "what if" so different choices can be made but they would have had to have been made at appropriate times in order to take effect.
Except losses were not regularly at 7%, nor were all losses on city raids, mine laying for example, attacks on non German targets etc. The following is from the War Room Manual, how it counts Mosquito fighter sorties is not entirely clear. Also pathfinder aircraft often did not drop their entire load, the different mission profiles of the different types and so on, treat the following as a guide, not an absolute.9 January 1941, first flight of the Lancaster. And that went on to become the mainstay of BC. Had they wished to change approach, it could have been done. Not to mention that with the appalling loss rate (IIRC around 7% on average, meaning a heavy bomber lasted on average only about 10 missions before being shot down) they needed to produce a huge number of them just to keep the fleet numbers up. With the much lower loss rate of the Mossie (or something similar), a correspondingly lower rate of production would have been needed to keep the force numbers.
Year | Sorties | Missing | % | Sorties | Missing | % |
1939 | 591 | 38 | 6.43 | |||
1940 | 22473 | 475 | 2.11 | 11071 | 215 | 1.94 |
1941 | 32012 | 923 | 2.88 | 20897 | 662 | 3.17 |
1942 | 35228 | 1450 | 4.12 | 22922 | 1121 | 4.89 |
1943 | 65068 | 2391 | 3.67 | 48312 | 2086 | 4.32 |
1944 | 166844 | 2770 | 1.66 | 70083 | 1831 | 2.61 |
1945 | 67483 | 608 | 0.90 | 54034 | 525 | 0.97 |
All | 389699 | 8655 | 2.22 | 227319 | 6440 | 2.83 |
Missing | Cat E | Tons bombs | Ton/Missing | Ton/Loss | Aircraft |
254 | 142 | 26,867 | 105.8 | 67.85 | Mosquito |
1332 | 377 | 41,823 | 31.4 | 24.47 | Wellington |
606 | 163 | 27,821 | 45.91 | 36.18 | Stirling |
1833 | 399 | 224,207 | 122.3 | 100.45 | Halifax |
3345 | 487 | 608,612 | 181.9 | 158.82 | Lancaster |
Reinforce the RAF in the Far East and (priority one) North Africa and the MTO. Don't send any British aircraft to Russia until Malaya, Burma and Australia-PNG have the air force they need to counter Japan - having just invaded FIC, it's obvious where they're going next. All those Hurricanes made in Canada that went to Russia or the bottom of the North Atlantic? Send those to Malaya, Moresby and Mandalay, not Murmansk.Similar to the LW post the Battle of Britain - what might be the workable options for the RAF after the BoB (say, after the October 1st 1940). From doctrine, logistics, engine and airframe technology and whole aircraft, guns and other armament etc. Also about the best use of LL gear the RAF is getting.
A lot depends on WHEN.Reinforce the RAF in the Far East and (priority one) North Africa and the MTO. Don't send any British aircraft to Russia until Malaya, Burma and Australia-PNG have the air force they need to counter Japan - having just invaded FIC, it's obvious where they're going next. All those Hurricanes made in Canada that went to Russia or the bottom of the North Atlantic? Send those to Malaya, Moresby and Mandalay, not Murmansk.
Very easy to do with hindsight, however you are not going to gain much because the Wooden Unarmed bomber needed a little development.Meanwhile, expedite the Mosquito and (what would become the) Meteor programs. The obstructionists in the Air Ministry that delayed and dismissed the wooden unarmed bomber and Whittle's jet engine should be dismissed.
Sunderlands were great aircraft, however building them was somewhat building a ship. Increasing production called for a large investment in infrastructure and factory personnel. More than was needed for the equivalent 4 engine land planes. You do need to get somebody to design and approve better anti-submarine ordnance.And don't neglect RAF Coastal Command. Allocate more and better aircraft, more Sunderlands and other depth charge equipped long range patrol aircraft to combat the U-boats. Plus expedite fast torpedo armed strike aircraft like the Beaufighter (the torpedo-armed version was late to the game) to combat surface threats in the Channel and North Sea, like the Channel Dash where the RAF failed miserably. And expedite technological advances such as air-to-surface radar, leigh lights and electromagnetic de-mining rings.
This could have been improved considerably by the rather simple transfer of just a few squadrons of Blenheim MK IVs replacing some of the Ansons. Except that would have prevented Bomber Command from bombing the Germans into submission in 1940, oh wait,,,,,,,,, bombing them into submission in 1941,,,,,,,,Uh, wait again,,,,,,,,,1942, yes, that is the ticket!!!!On the outbreak of war in 1939 Coastal Command had 18 squadrons. These consisted of ten of Avro Ansons, including four auxiliaries, two of Vickers Vildebeests , two of Short Sunderlands, three of Saro London and one of Supermarine Stranraers.
Transfer some Blenheim's. Some fighter versions and some bomber versions, enough to get 3-6 squadrons experimenting with tactics.Up to the end of 1940, Coastal Command's Anti-shipping Operations (ASO) campaign against German seaborne trade in north-west European waters had claimed a direct attack on only six vessels
Absolutely on the money. People talk about bigger engines, bigger bombs, bigger guns, all of that is useless without accuracy, whats needed is better bomb sights, guns sights navigation aids and training, get the ammunition hitting where you want it first then go from there.You need to develop your navigation skills/equipment. Having Mosquitos scattering bombs allover western Europe like the other RAF bombers of 1940-41-early 1942 was not going to change much.
Official exports | Number | Type | x | Hurricanes | Convoy | Depart | x | Prior to first Protocol | |
Aug-41 | 16 | Hurricane | x | 1 | PQ00 | n/a | x | 200 | Hurricane |
Aug-41 | 48 | Tomahawk | x | 100 | PQ01 | 29.09.41 | x | 141 | Tomahawk |
Aug-41 | 22 | Hurricane | x | 189 | PQ02 | 13.10.41 | x | 10 | Airacobra |
Sep-41 | 101 | Hurricane | x | 42 | PQ03 | 09.11.41 | x | 4 | Mustang |
Sep-41 | 93 | Tomahawk | x | 79 | PQ04 | 17.11.41 | x | 59 | Tomahawk direct from USA |
Sep-41 | 2 | Hurricane | x | 68 | PQ05 | 27.11.41 | x | 39 | 151 Wing |
Oct-41 | 77 | Hurricane | x | 5 | PQ06 | 08.12.41 | |||
Oct-41 | 3 | Tomahawk | x | 484 | Total | ||||
Oct-41 | 190 | Hurricane | x | 39 | 151 Wing | extra | |||
Nov-41 | 144 | Hurricane | |||||||
Nov-41 | 25 | Tomahawk | |||||||
Nov-41 | 18 | Airacobra |
Year | 250 lb | 500 lb | 1000lb |
1939 | 19100 | 84300 | 0 |
1940 | 48700 | 141600 | 1900 |
1941 | 330200 | 171800 | 23000 |
1942 | 14600 | 301800 | 109600 |
Galland was engaging in spin. They "did not like the results [they] were getting so [they] stopped" is losing. He just wasn't able to admit it.Here is a question for y'all:
Post BoB were the Big Wings a failure? During the BoB I think there was one mission when the idea worked, scared the bejesus out of the Germans at a time when they already pretty well knew they were licked and this helped to drive the last nail in their coffin. Or, as Adolph Galland put it 28 years later, "The Luftwaffe did not lose the BoB. Rather, we did not like the results we were getting so we stopped." Heh. So the BoB was a forfeit?
But the Big Wings were used in RAF "leaning into France" raids, with lots of Spits escorting a piddling number of RAF bombers against targets in France. And the Luftwaffe loved that approach, enabling them to nip into those large unwieldy formations and bag a few. Then the B-17's arrived in Mid-1942, carrying bombloads in daylight that were not trivial in either effect or in accuracy and operating at much higher altitudes, and Things Changed. The first B-17 raid on France hit the boys at Abbeville, with a Spit IX escort, and knocked the place arse over teakettle.
High-school bully vibe by Adolf?Post BoB were the Big Wings a failure? During the BoB I think there was one mission when the idea worked, scared the bejesus out of the Germans at a time when they already pretty well knew they were licked and this helped to drive the last nail in their coffin. Or, as Adolph Galland put it 28 years later, "The Luftwaffe did not lose the BoB. Rather, we did not like the results we were getting so we stopped." Heh. So the BoB was a forfeit?
The appearance of the Big Wing late in the BoB had a huge psychological effect, at a time when the LW bing told the RAF were down to their last 50 planes, after fighting their way to London the LW were confronted with a single formation of 50 planes. The result was nowhere near what was claimed, all pilots in the Big Wing apart from the leaders said it was complete chaos. Later in the war the USAAF would put up freakin enormous wings that filled the sky, but the pilots werent required to fly so close they could look each other in the eye and mouth jokes to each other.Here is a question for y'all:
Post BoB were the Big Wings a failure? During the BoB I think there was one mission when the idea worked, scared the bejesus out of the Germans at a time when they already pretty well knew they were licked and this helped to drive the last nail in their coffin. Or, as Adolph Galland put it 28 years later, "The Luftwaffe did not lose the BoB. Rather, we did not like the results we were getting so we stopped." Heh. So the BoB was a forfeit?
But the Big Wings were used in RAF "leaning into France" raids, with lots of Spits escorting a piddling number of RAF bombers against targets in France. And the Luftwaffe loved that approach, enabling them to nip into those large unwieldy formations and bag a few. Then the B-17's arrived in Mid-1942, carrying bombloads in daylight that were not trivial in either effect or in accuracy and operating at much higher altitudes, and Things Changed. The first B-17 raid on France hit the boys at Abbeville, with a Spit IX escort, and knocked the place arse over teakettle.
The appearance of the Big Wing late in the BoB had a huge psychological effect, at a time when the LW bing told the RAF were down to their last 50 planes, after fighting their way to London the LW were confronted with a single formation of 50 planes. The result was nowhere near what was claimed, all pilots in the Big Wing apart from the leaders said it was complete chaos. Later in the war the USAAF would put up freakin enormous wings that filled the sky, but the pilots werent required to fly so close they could look each other in the eye and mouth jokes to each other.
In some cases such orders were placed to keep a workforce working, pilots flying and even MoD procurement departments "procuring"A few other ideas post BoB into the early postwar era.
1) Do not share jet engine designs or tech with the Soviets
2) Read the late war and early postwar room. Cancel the Spiteful, Firebrand, Firecrest and Spearfish. Focus on improving the performance, reliability and timelines for the Swift, Attacker, Vampire and Sea Hawk programs. Including swept wing and transonic research.
Britain has lots to keep the design, procurement and testing expertise honed and intact whilst still dumping the late war and early postwar dead-end projects. For example, Fairey has the Gannet "commenced in response to the issuing of requirement GR.17/45 in 1945, under which the Admiralty sought a new twin-seat aircraft capable of performing both anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and strike missions." Fairey Gannet - WikipediaIn some cases such orders were placed to keep a workforce working, pilots flying and even MoD procurement departments "procuring"
A few other ideas post BoB into the early postwar era.
1) Do not share jet engine designs or tech with the Soviets
2) Read the late war and early postwar room. Cancel the Spiteful, Firebrand, Firecrest and Spearfish. Focus on improving the performance, reliability and timelines for the Swift, Attacker, Vampire and Sea Hawk programs. Including swept wing and transonic research.
The Firecrest didn't even fly until 1947, and lumbered along in flight testing until 1949. Despite the fact that by 1946, it was clear that nobody wanted the airplane. It seems like a "make work" project to meThe Spiteful was certainly cancelled shortly after the war. Maybe even in 1945.
Only 19 were built.
The Seafang was also dropped shortly after the war, after the Sea Vampire demonstrated a landing on an aircraft carrier.
18 Seafangs were built.
Supermarine were developing the "Jet Spiteful" from 1944. This would become the Attacker.
Only 2 Firecrests and 5 Spearfishes were built, not sure when they were cancelled.