Rare weapon used by Israeli Air Force.

[CharlesBronson]

Recently I had seen some footage in the CNN of jewish air force operation over Gaza and I have a question.

What is that thing wich explodes in the air and opened like a spider web ?

A cluster bomb? a IR jamming device ?

the image I saw is more or less like this:

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I do not know, I would have to see the video footage. I am sure it is not a rare weapon though.

Here is a video of cluster bombs. Is this what you saw?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii5D0MbLrHI

 

[Gnomey]

I think he is thinking of something which is more akin to this (White Phosphorus shells)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSwV2GpTNVM

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap, that could be it.

 

[GrauGeist]

I'm pretty sure I saw what CB is referring to, in last Friday's paper.

Did it look something like this, but from more of a head-on perspective?
(view is from Israeli lines)

 

[CharlesBronson]

think he is thinking of something which is more akin to this (White Phosphorus shells)

YouTube - White Phosphorus used over Gaza.

Definately !! thank you. So is an artillery shell and not a bomb ? it must have some kind of timed or proximity fuze.

 

[Gnomey]

I believe does have a proximity fuse for it to be an airburst weapon. Can be delivered by any means - bomb, shell etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_(weapon)

 

[Airframes]

Ooh! Naughty! WP is supposed to be banned as a weapon; most armies get around that problem, especially with WP grenades, by calling them 'Smoke Signalling Devices'!

 

[Amsel]

Even the Soviets refused to admit using WP in the sacking of Berlin. And they felt in the right to bring "fire and sword" to Germany. WP is not supposed to be used from what I understand against personel.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

WP is not supposed to be used from what I understand against personel.

Believe me it is used by everyone...

Here is video of it being used in Fallujah:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxfPCPA2d60

 

[Parmigiano]

Well, the fact that 'Willy Pete' is not used only by Israel does not make the use of it less criminal.
This is a war crime, no questions.

 

[CharlesBronson]

I believe does have a proximity fuse for it to be an airburst weapon. Can be delivered by any means - bomb, shell etc

I was reading some old magazines and I find the WP was also used in the Falklands/Malvinas by Argentine army in the shape of 60mm, 81mm mortar and 105mm howitzer rounds.

The problem that I see in this videos is that it spread in a relative large area over the city, you cant claim "surgical precision" with this.
However it must be said since the islamist always used to shield their components with women, children and the ONU the same could be said about any weapon used over this city.

Well, the fact that 'Willy Pete' is not used only by Israel does not make the use of it less criminal.
This is a war crime, no questions.

I dont think so, it is a nasty weapon indeed, but arent all in that way ?

 

[Parmigiano]

Use of WP as smokescreen or for illumination purposes on military target is allowed.

Use of WP on densely populated civilian areas is not allowed by Geneva convention, and is a war crime.

It was a war crime when Saddam used it on the Kurds and it is now and whenever any 'X' army uses it on any 'Y' population.

I don't believe that there is much room for interpretation, I doubt that somebody can claim that in this case it was a 'smokescreen'

 

[CharlesBronson]

I was reading the Geneva Convention online and I have to say you were right.
Quite unfortunately that the IDF is using it in this way

 

[Erich]

how can anyone say in there right mind in the time of combat that a weapon of any sort is to be banned ? what utter foolishness. Screw the Geneva convention

 

[Parmigiano]

Well, but if you apply the same principle in a neutral way then you should allow also any type of terrorism and human bombs too.

Either you draw a line with a super-partes institution (that is surely not perfect, but is the best possible) and you obey the rules or you can't draw any line.

But this is a topic that would go too far.

 

[Erich]

there are no rules when it comes to combating your enemy I will tell you this as a fact, bullets, bombs, rockets, anything, it does not make any difference in the world. Besides both sides are not listening to a western dominated UN never have and never will, you speak of human bombs well look for your ownself and see how long this has been going on from certain mideast factions, funny nobody really is bothered by all the years of relentless explosions amongst busy down town streets and markets and yet if Israel comes into an area with force the whole world points the finger...............maybe it is Israel's time to scatter Hamas to the winds if it means going in like a steam roller all through Gaza

 

[evangilder]

Have none of you guys ever worked spotting artillery??? WP is often used for spotting, or "Marker rounds". One to five rounds can be fired to range for the spotter. Also, bear in mind that WP is not prohibited or restricted by Protocol II of the Certain Conventional Weapons Convention (CCWC), the Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons which may be Deemed to be Excessively Injurious or to have Indiscriminate Effects.

According the globalsecurity.org, the Israelis violated no international laws or conventions while using white phosphorous.
White Phosphorus (WP)

 

[BombTaxi]

Erich,

I don't think anyone with eyes to see and a mind to think questions why the Israelis have gone into Gaza. It is the means by which the campaign has been conducted which has raised concerns, as well is it's current failure to meet it's objectives. Something like 1,000 Gazans have now been killed, mainly civilians, and the rocket attacks have not stopped. The IDF claims to have destroyed Hama's infrastructure, but this has clearly not had much effect on the guys firing the rockets. So what does the IDF do? Stay there until all 1.5 million Gazans are dead and their territory pounded into dust? While there are some out there who think that is exactly what should happen, I think the other Arab countries would crush Israel before that happened.

Personally, I am appalled by the suicide bombings and rocket attacks on Israel. But here is a fact - Israel has spent sixty years trying to crush it's Arab neighbours and population by force of arms and it hasn't changed a thing. So surely now is the time to end this cycle? Meeting violence with violence is not working. Now is the time for Israel to take the lead, to rebuild Gaza and the West Bank and show the Palestinians that life without Hamas is the better choice. They won't do that by bombing women and children. After all, Israel won't give in to the slaughter of innocents - why should they expect Hamas to do so?

 

[Erich]

what you say bomb is all well and good from a westerners point of view but they do not accept nor understand our way of thinking thus cannot apply the more logical way of which we see it. the cycle will never be broken for both sides - they will die by the sword. Study the country's long long past, it is inevitable. While I was there it was so apparent they did not want us westerners living with them or encouraging them in any fashion except to have our money.