- Thread starter
- #201
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
You kidding ?, this variant is pretty rare, aniway the nickel plated was an original characteristics.
Rifles and Machineguns of WW2
- Thread starter CharlesBronson
- Start date
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A good site for info on the Stg.44 : MP44.nl - Welcome to my new Website
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
- and for those doubting Thomases that were adamant that no Assault Rifle preceded the StG44:
Modern Firearms - Fedorov "Avtomat" assault rifle
Hi CharlesBronson,
Modern Firearms - Fedorov "Avtomat" assault rifle
Hi CharlesBronson,
7 said:
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
The Fedorov was designed around an intermediate cartridge.
The situation dictated that they were rechambered for captured Arisaka rounds.
The Arisaka round was designed for the small, lightweight Japanese soldiers.
It was used as a SMG, so can be considered an Assault Rifle IMO.
I take it you would consider the Cei-Rigotti and BAR as rifles? - me too, though they are tricky to classify. I suppose Battle Rifle is the best way of desribing the Cei-Rigotti and L1A1 SLR, but the BAR wasn't intended to be used as an LMG originally. Would SAW do, do you think?
What would you class the M1 Carbine as Soren?
I'd call it a PDW - the bullet is much more like a pistol than a rifle. I'd say a carbine is a shortened rifle, admittedly the M1C's action resembles a scaled-down Garands...
As you may be able to tell, I find classification a nightmare.
The Simonov is also a pain, a Battle Rifle firing an Intermediate cartridge.
The M16A2 too, it lacks full-auto - so is it really an Assault Rifle?
The M4A1 - SMG or Assault Rifle? - At least this is a genuine carbine.
The Meiji 38th Carbine and Kar98k - can they realy be considered carbines, or even short carbines?
A little off the subject, but would you consider the IS tank a medium, heavy or super-heavy? Heavy IMO.
The situation dictated that they were rechambered for captured Arisaka rounds.
The Arisaka round was designed for the small, lightweight Japanese soldiers.
It was used as a SMG, so can be considered an Assault Rifle IMO.
I take it you would consider the Cei-Rigotti and BAR as rifles? - me too, though they are tricky to classify. I suppose Battle Rifle is the best way of desribing the Cei-Rigotti and L1A1 SLR, but the BAR wasn't intended to be used as an LMG originally. Would SAW do, do you think?
What would you class the M1 Carbine as Soren?
I'd call it a PDW - the bullet is much more like a pistol than a rifle. I'd say a carbine is a shortened rifle, admittedly the M1C's action resembles a scaled-down Garands...
As you may be able to tell, I find classification a nightmare.
The Simonov is also a pain, a Battle Rifle firing an Intermediate cartridge.
The M16A2 too, it lacks full-auto - so is it really an Assault Rifle?
The M4A1 - SMG or Assault Rifle? - At least this is a genuine carbine.
The Meiji 38th Carbine and Kar98k - can they realy be considered carbines, or even short carbines?
A little off the subject, but would you consider the IS tank a medium, heavy or super-heavy? Heavy IMO.
- Thread starter
- #206
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
The Argentine Fal used the standar 7,62mm NATO ammo (7,62x51 or .308 winchester as you like).
No more details of that rifle unfortunately, I think that there was no much difference with the original U.S rifle.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Out of the US during the war? What manufacturer? Looks like a post manufacture modification by third party.
- Thread starter
- #209
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
It seems that I am speaking chinese lately, quote to self:
With "both" I mean the Garand and the STG-44ar.
With "both" I mean the Garand and the STG-44ar.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Ah. Sorry. Collectors stateside would appreciate the unique origin, but it is the lower SN US manufacturers that garner most collectibility. Especially with pedigree.
How many did Rosario make CB?
How many did Rosario make CB?
- Thread starter
- #211
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Less than 10 of each Model.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Less than 10! LESS THAN 10! That's not a manufacturer, that's a local gunsmith making custom rifles. No wonder. 
Changes the discussion completely. What does one cost in US?
Changes the discussion completely. What does one cost in US?
- Thread starter
- #213
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Well ,you have to take account that was merely for experimental purposes, the FN Fal surpassed both designs.
I dont know even if in the U.S is knowledge that the Garand was fabricated in this rare caliber.
I dont know even if in the U.S is knowledge that the Garand was fabricated in this rare caliber.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Wasn't licensed. Probably not with only 10 produced and US manufacturers not involved. A guy in a back shop in the boonies doesn't need a license. The storyline seems very odd though.
After German lost the war, it was stripped of military equipement - jets rockets etc for use by the Allied nations.
So how come nothing happened in this respect to the MG-42!?
With its rate of fire, what a difference it might have made if US, British other UN troops had had this weapon in Korea '48/52.
Any comments.
So how come nothing happened in this respect to the MG-42!?
With its rate of fire, what a difference it might have made if US, British other UN troops had had this weapon in Korea '48/52.
Any comments.
The reason the MG42 was not used by the allis after the war is because it fired a 7.92mm round rather than a 7.62mm NATO round. The MG42 however was used to develop other weapons after the war including the US M60 Machine Gun.
The Germans after the war developed the MG1 and MG2 which was essentially a MG42 that fired a 7.62mm NATO round. The MG2 led to the MG3 which is really nothing more than an improved MG42 that fires the 7.62mm NATO round.
The MG3 which was developed in 1968 is still the main machine gun for the modern German military today and is also used by:
Denmark
Estonia
Germany
Greece (license production by EAS)
Italy (license production by Beretta)
Lithuania
Norway
Portugal (as M960)
Spain
Poland
Turkey (license production, by MKE in Kirikkale since 1974).
Australia (used in the Leopard tank)
Austria (derivative MG74 developed by Steyr and Beretta in 1974)
Chile
Finland (as 7,62 KK MG3)
Iran (license production by DIO)
Pakistan (license production by Pakistan Ordnance Factories)
Saudi Arabia
Sweden (as Ksp 94, used as a tank MG)
Switzerland
Yugoslavia (clone)
MG3
Type General Purpose Machine Gun
Place of origin Germany
Service history
In service 1968 –
Production history
Designed 1966
Manufacturer Rheinmetall
Specifications
Weight 10.5 kg (23.1 lb)
11.5 kg (25.3 lb) with bipod
Length 1225 mm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cartridge 7.62 × 51 mm NATO
Action Recoil operated, roller locked
Rate of fire 1150 rounds/minute (+/- 150)
Muzzle velocity 820 m/s
Effective range 800 m (bipod)
1500 m (mounted)
Maximum range 3750 m
Feed system 50-round non-disintegrating belts (can be combined in drum), 120-round disintregrating belt (in plastic box).
Sights Iron sights
Below is a pic of the MG3
The Germans after the war developed the MG1 and MG2 which was essentially a MG42 that fired a 7.62mm NATO round. The MG2 led to the MG3 which is really nothing more than an improved MG42 that fires the 7.62mm NATO round.
The MG3 which was developed in 1968 is still the main machine gun for the modern German military today and is also used by:
Denmark
Estonia
Germany
Greece (license production by EAS)
Italy (license production by Beretta)
Lithuania
Norway
Portugal (as M960)
Spain
Poland
Turkey (license production, by MKE in Kirikkale since 1974).
Australia (used in the Leopard tank)
Austria (derivative MG74 developed by Steyr and Beretta in 1974)
Chile
Finland (as 7,62 KK MG3)
Iran (license production by DIO)
Pakistan (license production by Pakistan Ordnance Factories)
Saudi Arabia
Sweden (as Ksp 94, used as a tank MG)
Switzerland
Yugoslavia (clone)
MG3
Type General Purpose Machine Gun
Place of origin Germany
Service history
In service 1968 –
Production history
Designed 1966
Manufacturer Rheinmetall
Specifications
Weight 10.5 kg (23.1 lb)
11.5 kg (25.3 lb) with bipod
Length 1225 mm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cartridge 7.62 × 51 mm NATO
Action Recoil operated, roller locked
Rate of fire 1150 rounds/minute (+/- 150)
Muzzle velocity 820 m/s
Effective range 800 m (bipod)
1500 m (mounted)
Maximum range 3750 m
Feed system 50-round non-disintegrating belts (can be combined in drum), 120-round disintregrating belt (in plastic box).
Sights Iron sights
Below is a pic of the MG3
Attachments
Well I dont have a helicopter anymore...
But yeah it might have been nice to try one out from the Blackhawk. When I went and qualified for the German Shooting Chored (qualification badge in the US) we had to shoot the MG3 among other weapons. She had a good reach on her and was really accurate in my opinion.
Overall how the MG3 is I can not say though, because other than that qualification shoot, I did not get to shoot it again because we did not use it in the US Army.
But yeah it might have been nice to try one out from the Blackhawk. When I went and qualified for the German Shooting Chored (qualification badge in the US) we had to shoot the MG3 among other weapons. She had a good reach on her and was really accurate in my opinion.
Overall how the MG3 is I can not say though, because other than that qualification shoot, I did not get to shoot it again because we did not use it in the US Army.
- Thread starter
- #220
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Another german gun wich used the delayed roller locking system of the MG-42, the assault rifle StG 45, Mauser design. only 30 were made by 1945.
the caliber was the 7,92mm short.
the caliber was the 7,92mm short.
