Rudel's tank kill count is correct?

[Thumpalumpacus]

We can all believe what we wish.

I tend to follow the facts.

When the National Socialist German Worker's Party (the Nazis) took control of the Reichstag in 1932, they did so with 37.4% of the popular vote. Between 1932 and WWII, the party didn't get smaller, it got larger.

That doesn't say anything about the actual membership of the NSDAP, which is what we are discussing.

OIn 23 Mar 1933, the Enabling Act passed with a vote of 444 to 94, and that is not a misprint. All civilian organisations, including agricultural groups, volunteer organisations, and sports clubs, had their leadership replaced with Nazi sympathisers or party members; these civic organisations either merged with the Nazi Party or faced dissolution. On 2 August 1934, Hindenburg died. The previous day, the cabinet had enacted the "Law Concerning the Highest State Office of the Reich", which stated that upon Hindenburg's death the office of president would be abolished and its powers merged with those of the chancellor. Hitler thus became head of state as well as head of government and was formally named as Führer und Reichskanzler ("Leader and Chancellor"), although eventually Reichskanzler was dropped. Germany was now a totalitarian state with Hitler at its head. As head of state, Hitler became Supreme Commander of the armed forces. The new law provided an altered loyalty oath for servicemen so that they affirmed loyalty to Hitler personally rather than the office of supreme commander or the state. On 19 August, the merger of the presidency with the chancellorship was approved by 90 per cent of the electorate in a plebiscite.

Yes, I know this stuff. It too doesn't address the actual membership rolls of the NSDAP.

Anyone who thinks the Nazi Party got smaller between 1935 and 1939, when WWII started, isn't looking at the reality of living in Germany at the time.

It's a good thing I'm not writing that, then!

 

[Erich]

how bout we got back to the question of the original poster guys ?

 

[GregP]

I tend to follow the facts.



That doesn't say anything about the actual membership of the NSDAP, which is what we are discussing.



Yes, I know this stuff. It too doesn't address the actual membership rolls of the NSDAP.



It's a good thing I'm not writing that, then!

Yeah, it's a good thing. We can agree on that, anyway.

 

[GregP]

Hans Rudel killed a lot of tanks. Short of inventing a "way Back Machine" (like Sherman and Mr. Peabody had) and perusing the past through it, it's tough to say what his actual count is. He is CREDITED with destroying 519 tanks, amid other credits he is given.

I am quite loathe to revise the wartime awards since we weren't there and the people who awarded the credits were much closer to the action then we are. I'm not sure he actually GOT 519 tanks, but I also can't verifiably say he didn't. I may strongly suspect he didn't actually get 519, but that isn't the same thing as "he didn't!"

I'll stick with 519 until we can prove differently beyond a doubt. It doesn't make him a decent human being, but it DOES make him an admirable attack pilot. If YOU are an attack pilot and have to emulate somebody, you could do worse than read about his techniques for ground attack with a dive bomber.

 

[Erich]

as I posted earlier without a group/staffel history we in this field do not even know what areas of operations any of the crews flew, how can this high score add up without seeing his flugbuch. what we have is German works translated years ago into English and to be so-called proven fact. I'll given Hans a score of possibly 250 and some maybe personal carriers instead of tanks with a possiblity that some Soviet armor was recovered damaged. check the link I posted on best tank killer and who was the closets LW tank killer close to Rudel ? Far from a score of 300 even. Ah well his score will be debated till times end.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Overclaiming happened in all branches in all nations.

 

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

The Luftflotte 4 daily report for 2 November 1944 reported that Hans-Ulrich Rudel claimed the destruction of his 355th to 360th tanks that day. On 8 January 1945 he claimed his 464th tank destroyed. This was during the fighting in Hungary.

His other very successful period came in the spring of 1944 in Romania, when he claimed 100 tanks in just over two months.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

 

[GregP]

Overclaiming happened in all branches in all nations

You think?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

You think?

I know, yeah.