Rudel's tank kill count is correct?
- Thread starter ROK-BIRDMAN
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Just to go a little further off the original topic, Continental continued developing the R-975 and sold a lot of 525hp versions for HUP helicopters. Some crop dusters used them; I was told that they worked well at high altitude fields in Idaho.
Greatest bomber pilot in history has to be Major Kong.
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
And that settles that.
Erich
the old Sage
sadly there is really nothing on his 10th staffel nor a history book on StG 2 to confirm anything. Personally I feel some of his staffel mates scores went over to Rudel as he was a prime 3rd Reich propaganda candidate. His score of over 500 Soviet tanks is nonsense.
GregP
Major
Why undoubtedly an ego-driven liar?
GregP
Major
Better in what way?
Rudel's political beliefs didn't affect his flying or shooting skills.
They may have done, people who believe in the cause they are fighting for usually do a better job of it.
Erich
the old Sage
someone know where his Flugbuch is ?
GregP
Major
People who were there tell me otherwise. Modern revisionists are looking for a way to make people feel better, and are not especially keen on dispensing truth.
Erich
the old Sage
please read thru this forum statements: Tank Busting Aircraft at Kursk - The Dupuy Institute Forum
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
Nazi Germany employed a variety of carrots and sticks to coerce compliance. Under the Gleichschaltung laws, every organization in Germany had to have a Party member on their board, who exerted undue pressure on these organizations to toe the party line.
Children were automatically enrolled in the HJ and BDM. Here they were indoctrinated and encouraged to inform on "unpatriotic" activities and attitudes of their parents.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
You can believe who you wish, of course, but anecdotes are not evidence. I've read on this for decades, and historians are in general agreement, and that goes back a ways. Daniel Goldhagen, Chris McNab, and others agree that membership rolls did not exceed 10 million, which would have been 12.5% of the total population. Indeed, McNab cites 8.5 million.
GregP
Major
We can all believe what we wish.
When the National Socialist German Worker's Party (the Nazis) took control of the Reichstag in 1932, they did so with 37.4% of the popular vote. Between 1932 and WWII, the party didn't get smaller, it got larger.
OIn 23 Mar 1933, the Enabling Act passed with a vote of 444 to 94, and that is not a misprint. All civilian organisations, including agricultural groups, volunteer organisations, and sports clubs, had their leadership replaced with Nazi sympathisers or party members; these civic organisations either merged with the Nazi Party or faced dissolution. On 2 August 1934, Hindenburg died. The previous day, the cabinet had enacted the "Law Concerning the Highest State Office of the Reich", which stated that upon Hindenburg's death the office of president would be abolished and its powers merged with those of the chancellor. Hitler thus became head of state as well as head of government and was formally named as Führer und Reichskanzler ("Leader and Chancellor"), although eventually Reichskanzler was dropped. Germany was now a totalitarian state with Hitler at its head. As head of state, Hitler became Supreme Commander of the armed forces. The new law provided an altered loyalty oath for servicemen so that they affirmed loyalty to Hitler personally rather than the office of supreme commander or the state. On 19 August, the merger of the presidency with the chancellorship was approved by 90 per cent of the electorate in a plebiscite.
Anyone who thinks the Nazi Party got smaller between 1935 and 1939, when WWII started, isn't looking at the reality of living in Germany at the time.
When the National Socialist German Worker's Party (the Nazis) took control of the Reichstag in 1932, they did so with 37.4% of the popular vote. Between 1932 and WWII, the party didn't get smaller, it got larger.
OIn 23 Mar 1933, the Enabling Act passed with a vote of 444 to 94, and that is not a misprint. All civilian organisations, including agricultural groups, volunteer organisations, and sports clubs, had their leadership replaced with Nazi sympathisers or party members; these civic organisations either merged with the Nazi Party or faced dissolution. On 2 August 1934, Hindenburg died. The previous day, the cabinet had enacted the "Law Concerning the Highest State Office of the Reich", which stated that upon Hindenburg's death the office of president would be abolished and its powers merged with those of the chancellor. Hitler thus became head of state as well as head of government and was formally named as Führer und Reichskanzler ("Leader and Chancellor"), although eventually Reichskanzler was dropped. Germany was now a totalitarian state with Hitler at its head. As head of state, Hitler became Supreme Commander of the armed forces. The new law provided an altered loyalty oath for servicemen so that they affirmed loyalty to Hitler personally rather than the office of supreme commander or the state. On 19 August, the merger of the presidency with the chancellorship was approved by 90 per cent of the electorate in a plebiscite.
Anyone who thinks the Nazi Party got smaller between 1935 and 1939, when WWII started, isn't looking at the reality of living in Germany at the time.
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The Allied Tactical AFs made a high number of tank kill claims in Normandy. Post campaign analysis showed a very high ratio of kill claims to verified claims. Similary the Luftwaffe also overclaimed:
tanks-encyclopedia.com
Effectiveness of Tactical Air Strikes in World War II - “Tank busting” - Tank Encyclopedia
Close support airstrikes are often portrayed as being the mortal enemies of tanks during WWII. However, this view does not hold in the face of real data.
tanks-encyclopedia.com
Erich
the old Sage
please read the link I posted as there is some factual info on LW tank kills5.
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
Before the vote on the Enabling Act, several leading opposition politicians had either been arrested, or were being held in "protective custody". Those members of opposition parties who did attend the Reichstag that day were frisked upon entering the chamber, and escorted to their seats by armed officers of Goering's Prussian State Police. Immediately following the vote, many more were arrested. The totalitarian state had already been established. The Enabling Act was just legislative window dressing.
Erich
the old Sage
go to this threa as there are some good posts on tank killers
ww2aircraft.net
Best Tank Killer of WW2 continued
erich has let on that there were some Me-262's running around with armor piercing R4M's knocking tanks out left and right, although I myself have not been able to confirm this... I have heard this also, but know nothing about it myself.
ww2aircraft.net
GregP
Major
Hi Greg Boser. It's amazing how time and people interested in changing historical facts can somehow get that done, isn't it?
I collect old history books and have several from the late 1700s and in the 1800s. Their version of the happenings at the time, written by people who lived in those times, differs somewhat ... sometimes by a large amount ...from what modern revisionists have palmed off on our young people as fact. The history written immediately after the Civil War in the U.S.A. has almost nothing to say about what modern history text often cite as the primary reasons for the war in the first place. The thing is, all 3 old texts I have about that time period agree with one another on most points, but not all, and they were published in different cities.
Too many so-called historic journalists these days ignore any opinion that differs from their own and forget that a historic journalist is supposed to report what goes on, not take sides in the debate.
I don't like Adolph Hitler at all. But I also don't want to suppress what he said or call all Nazis liars and make them out to be stupid. If we did that and don't read what he said, thought, and did, then we would likely never recognize when it might start to happen again. Unfortunately, from what I am seeing, that lesson - that history repeats itself unless we are vigilant- seems to be getting lost yet AGAIN!
Ah well, back to airplanes, which is supposedly why we are all in here ...
I collect old history books and have several from the late 1700s and in the 1800s. Their version of the happenings at the time, written by people who lived in those times, differs somewhat ... sometimes by a large amount ...from what modern revisionists have palmed off on our young people as fact. The history written immediately after the Civil War in the U.S.A. has almost nothing to say about what modern history text often cite as the primary reasons for the war in the first place. The thing is, all 3 old texts I have about that time period agree with one another on most points, but not all, and they were published in different cities.
Too many so-called historic journalists these days ignore any opinion that differs from their own and forget that a historic journalist is supposed to report what goes on, not take sides in the debate.
I don't like Adolph Hitler at all. But I also don't want to suppress what he said or call all Nazis liars and make them out to be stupid. If we did that and don't read what he said, thought, and did, then we would likely never recognize when it might start to happen again. Unfortunately, from what I am seeing, that lesson - that history repeats itself unless we are vigilant- seems to be getting lost yet AGAIN!
Ah well, back to airplanes, which is supposedly why we are all in here ...
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