Russian Evaluation of the P-51

[muscogeemike]

I don't think the US gave the USSR any Mustangs during the war but I'm they got their hands on some.
Does anyone know what they thought of the plane?

 

[Juha]

I don't think the US gave the USSR any Mustangs during the war but I'm they got their hands on some.

4 or 10 ex-RAF Mustang Is

Does anyone know what they thought of the plane?

Not much

 

[bobbysocks]

and a few that were left or crashed there during the frantic missions. i am pretty sure i read that they ( russians ) fueled at least one with the wrong gas and the US FG ended up leaving it ( them ) in russia. on a side note...the finnish ace "Illu" Juutilanen claims he shot down 2 russian 51s "the ones with the allison engines" in a dogfight....???

 

[CobberKane]

The US captured a late maodel Yak 9 in Korea and tested it against a P-51D. The general conclusion was that the Mustang was superior in every department except rate of turn

 

[alejandro_]

The P-51 tested were early models with Allison V-1710-39 engines. The tests stated that it was inferior to the latest German and Soviet models in maximum speed, climb and turn rate. Later into the war they got a few D models but I do not think they were tested at NII-VVS.

 

[Timppa]

on a side note...the finnish ace "Illu" Juutilanen claims he shot down 2 russian 51s "the ones with the allison engines" in a dogfight....???

Misidentifications, like all the the other claimed FAF Mustang victories. AFAIK they were all claimed simply as "Mustangs", not "the ones with the allison engines".
General consensus of the historians seems to be that the "Mustangs" and "Spitfires" claimed were actually Yaks of various versions.

 

[tomo pauk]

Since the P-47 was many times mistaken for Fw-190, and P-51 for Bf-109, that might be the case here.

 

[bobbysocks]

timppa, it was in an interview or part of a bio that Illu made the statement about the "ones with allisons". i have the link at work and will try to find it sunday when i go back. i agree it was probably a a missed ID but i also find it odd that someone with his experience would make the claim. iirc it wasnt just one but a pair of 51s he said.

 

[Shortround6]

Look at a number of British action reports to see how many He 113s were shot down during the BoB.

 

[tomo pauk]

IIRC the Soviets were listing the downed Finish radial-engined fighters as Fw-190s?

 

[gjs238]

Is this kinda like US pilots overusing the name "Zero?"

 

[muscogeemike]

Speaking of miss identifying I had to re-post this:

In the 60's a UK radio is interviewing a WWII RAF pilot. The pilot is describing an encounter during the Battle of Britain - "I was over the channel and this Fokker got on my tail…".

The interviewer interrupted the pilot and said "by Fokker you mean a Focke Wulf?".

The pilot said "No, the Fokker on me was flying a Messerschmitt!".

 

[bobbysocks]

found the interview with Ilmari Juutlainen....

Interview: Ilmari Juutlainen

 

[Lefa]

Kyösti Karhila also claims a p51A.
As Juha said, I also read that the RAF gave 10 pieces p51A planes to the Soviet, and I have also read that they should be tested in the Leningrad front.
But I still strongly believe that this is an incorrect identification, and the planes were Yak 9 different models.

Russian also tested P47, but never but in front line use.

 

[davebender]

Bear in mind typical aerial combat altitude on Russian front was a bit less then 2,000 meters. P-47 and P-51 advantages @ 25,000 feet don't enter the effectiveness calculation.

 

[tomo pauk]

A nitpick - Soviets tested the Mustang I; P-51A was called Mustang II and it might be that Soviets never received that one? Interestingly enough, Soviets stated for Mustang and Fw-190A (A-4) far worse performances than they were really capable for. Will try to get the copy post it here.

The properly working Allison Mustang is vastly better aircraft at lower altitude than anything Soviets made before mid 1944, and the Merlin Mustang is every bit competitive down low.

added: translated Soviet overview of Mustang (scroll down) and Fw-190A-4 (scroll a bit for graph, showing the 109G-2 being faster than Fw)

 

[Juha]

Mustang Mk I (3,884kg, 1,150hp Allison V1710-F3R, 4x12.7mm+4x7.62mm): 23 sec. Soviet
tested one of those sent from GB (AG348 ) and the max. speed at 4,600m 587km/h, the
designation used in some Soviet docus, NA-73, and the engine sub-type indicated that it
was not P-51A but XP-51 in USAAF parlance.
British A&AEE tests in spring 42 (AG351) 595km/h at 4,572m, so almost the same speed.

from my site Results of the Soviet turn times tests - Juhan Sotahistoriasivut

 

[tengu1979]

Can a fuel difference play any role??? I know they got loads of good fuel by lend lease but what if they put worse fuel in them. Klimovs were much better siuted for lower grade russian fuel.

And btw is this the same 190 that was supplied with La-5 propeller????

 

[tomo pauk]

Mustang Mk I (3,884kg, 1,150hp Allison V1710-F3R, 4x12.7mm+4x7.62mm): 23 sec. Soviet
tested one of those sent from GB (AG348 ) and the max. speed at 4,600m 587km/h, the
designation used in some Soviet docus, NA-73, and the engine sub-type indicated that it
was not P-51A but XP-51 in USAAF parlance.
British A&AEE tests in spring 42 (AG351) 595km/h at 4,572m, so almost the same speed.

from my site Results of the Soviet turn times tests - Juhan Sotahistoriasivut

Thanks for the info, Juha. Can you please direct me to the British test, or/and post more about it?

 

[Juha]

It's from the Mike Williams' site, the page is included in my sources at the bottom of the turn-time page. But maybe it would be better to put instead the URL of that particular test to my sources, its URL: Mustang I Testing

Juha