Yes lets drop this subject now.
SBD Dauntless Discussion Group
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syscom3
Pacific Historian
The US Army operated a version of the SBD for awhile in the SW Pacific. I think it was called the A-24. From what I can gather, it didnt perform well compared to the navy version.
Anyone have some information on how such an aircraft can see service in the same part of the world, but have performance like night and day? The only reason I can gather is the types of land targets it would attack were far and few between. Perhaps defended well enough to not make it worthwhile to use this plane.
Anyone have some information on how such an aircraft can see service in the same part of the world, but have performance like night and day? The only reason I can gather is the types of land targets it would attack were far and few between. Perhaps defended well enough to not make it worthwhile to use this plane.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Just saw one at Wright-Patterson, Here's a history....
Southwest Pacific Service in 1942
In the days before Pearl Harbor, when war appeared imminent, the Army Air Forces transported the 27th Bombardment Group to the Philippines from Louisiana with its aircraft to follow later. The 27th flew the A-24, the Army Air Forces' first dive bomber. In light of the German Air Force dive bombing successes in Poland and France, the Army Air Corps acquired the US Navy's SBD-3 "Dauntless" dive bomber which was already in production. The A-24 was the SBD-3 without the tail hook and with either a solid or a pneumatic tail wheel.
When war broke out the 52 aircraft being sent to the Philippines were diverted to Australia to be assembled there. Most of the 27th's pilots were flown back to Australia to assemble their airplanes and fly them to the Philippines. The enlisted men, however, remained in the Philippines and became members of the 1st Provisional Air Corps Regiment, fighting the Japanese ground troops. All of the survivors were subjected to the Bataan Death March
The A-24s that arrived at Brisbane, Australia, in late December had been heavily used in Louisiana during maneuvers in September 1941 and still carried Louisiana mud on their wheels. In addition, they were missing trigger motors and solenoids, which prevented the firing of their forward guns, and the rear gun mounts broke easily. Many aircraft also had worn-out tires. The A-24s could not go into combat in the Philippines until these problems were corrected.
The Australians either machined the necessary solenoids or they fixed firing handles for the guns. The rear gun mounts were strengthened and Australian truck tires were used in place of American aircraft tires. By this time, however, the battle for the Philippines was almost over. The 27th Bombardment Group was slowly rebuilt into three squadrons, the 16th, 17th, and 91st. The 91st, equipped with 15 repaired A-24s, was the only squadron capable of flying to Java. They flew first to Darwin, Australia, and then to Malang, Java, arriving there on 17 February 1942. Out of the 15 Aircraft that began the trip to Java, only 7 were available for combat. The others were lost in accidents or were in need of repairs.
Over the next 10 days the 91st flew heroically against the best aircraft the Japanese possessed. The A-24s, however' had worn-out engines, no armor plate, no self sealing fuel tanks, and received no fighter protection. The pilots referred to them as "Blue Rock Clay Pigeons." The 91st squadron, nevertheless, attacked enemy ships in the harbor and the Japanese air base at Bali, as well as Japanese ships in the waters near Java, damaging and sinking numerous enemy ships. Two of the A-24s were shot down and three so badly holed they could no longer fly. In early March the order came to evacuate Java, ending a brief but valiant effort.
In New Guinea in 1942 the A-24 was relegated to noncombat missions after five of seven airplanes were lost and one was badly damaged on a mission over Buna, New Guinea. The A-24s were regarded by many pilots as too slow, too short-ranged, and too poorly armed.
Many of the remaining A-24s were used in the U.S. as training aircraft or to tow targets for aerial gunnery training.
Suggested Reading:
William H. Bartsch Doomed at the Start
Walter D. Edmonds, They Fought With What They Had
George C. Kenney, General Kenney Reports
SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 41 ft. 6 in.
Length: 33 ft. 0 in.
Height: 12 ft. 11 in.
Weight: 10,200 lbs. maximum (with 1,200 lbs. of bombs)
Armament: Two .50 caliber machine guns in the nose and twin .30 caliber flexible machine guns in rear cockpit; In Java, the A-24s carried Dutch 660 lb. bombs on the centerline and 110 lb. bombs on each wing.
Engine: Wright R-1829-52 of 1,000 hp.
Cost: $38,293
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 250 mph/217 knots
Cruising speed: 173 mph/150 knots
Range: 950 miles with 1,200 lbs. of bombs
Service Ceiling: 26,000 ft.
Southwest Pacific Service in 1942
In the days before Pearl Harbor, when war appeared imminent, the Army Air Forces transported the 27th Bombardment Group to the Philippines from Louisiana with its aircraft to follow later. The 27th flew the A-24, the Army Air Forces' first dive bomber. In light of the German Air Force dive bombing successes in Poland and France, the Army Air Corps acquired the US Navy's SBD-3 "Dauntless" dive bomber which was already in production. The A-24 was the SBD-3 without the tail hook and with either a solid or a pneumatic tail wheel.
When war broke out the 52 aircraft being sent to the Philippines were diverted to Australia to be assembled there. Most of the 27th's pilots were flown back to Australia to assemble their airplanes and fly them to the Philippines. The enlisted men, however, remained in the Philippines and became members of the 1st Provisional Air Corps Regiment, fighting the Japanese ground troops. All of the survivors were subjected to the Bataan Death March
The A-24s that arrived at Brisbane, Australia, in late December had been heavily used in Louisiana during maneuvers in September 1941 and still carried Louisiana mud on their wheels. In addition, they were missing trigger motors and solenoids, which prevented the firing of their forward guns, and the rear gun mounts broke easily. Many aircraft also had worn-out tires. The A-24s could not go into combat in the Philippines until these problems were corrected.
The Australians either machined the necessary solenoids or they fixed firing handles for the guns. The rear gun mounts were strengthened and Australian truck tires were used in place of American aircraft tires. By this time, however, the battle for the Philippines was almost over. The 27th Bombardment Group was slowly rebuilt into three squadrons, the 16th, 17th, and 91st. The 91st, equipped with 15 repaired A-24s, was the only squadron capable of flying to Java. They flew first to Darwin, Australia, and then to Malang, Java, arriving there on 17 February 1942. Out of the 15 Aircraft that began the trip to Java, only 7 were available for combat. The others were lost in accidents or were in need of repairs.
Over the next 10 days the 91st flew heroically against the best aircraft the Japanese possessed. The A-24s, however' had worn-out engines, no armor plate, no self sealing fuel tanks, and received no fighter protection. The pilots referred to them as "Blue Rock Clay Pigeons." The 91st squadron, nevertheless, attacked enemy ships in the harbor and the Japanese air base at Bali, as well as Japanese ships in the waters near Java, damaging and sinking numerous enemy ships. Two of the A-24s were shot down and three so badly holed they could no longer fly. In early March the order came to evacuate Java, ending a brief but valiant effort.
In New Guinea in 1942 the A-24 was relegated to noncombat missions after five of seven airplanes were lost and one was badly damaged on a mission over Buna, New Guinea. The A-24s were regarded by many pilots as too slow, too short-ranged, and too poorly armed.
Many of the remaining A-24s were used in the U.S. as training aircraft or to tow targets for aerial gunnery training.
Suggested Reading:
William H. Bartsch Doomed at the Start
Walter D. Edmonds, They Fought With What They Had
George C. Kenney, General Kenney Reports
SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 41 ft. 6 in.
Length: 33 ft. 0 in.
Height: 12 ft. 11 in.
Weight: 10,200 lbs. maximum (with 1,200 lbs. of bombs)
Armament: Two .50 caliber machine guns in the nose and twin .30 caliber flexible machine guns in rear cockpit; In Java, the A-24s carried Dutch 660 lb. bombs on the centerline and 110 lb. bombs on each wing.
Engine: Wright R-1829-52 of 1,000 hp.
Cost: $38,293
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 250 mph/217 knots
Cruising speed: 173 mph/150 knots
Range: 950 miles with 1,200 lbs. of bombs
Service Ceiling: 26,000 ft.
Most of them were regulated for training duties even though about 953 were built.
Well damn your post got in before mine. Good info FlyboyJ
Wildcat
Major
Very interesting info.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Did the Army specify no self-sealing tanks? Or did the Navy version have the same thing?
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I would guess in they were ordered without combat equipment.
Nonskimmer
Captain
In any event, that was a very informative post. Good stuff FJ. 
Yes, nice info FBJ.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Thanks guys! I think the armor and self sealing tanks would of been considered GFE - Government Furnished Equipment, installed by the government at the contractor or at a later date.
That is how a lot of things are done on aircraft even today.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Yep - it's amazing how some things never changed. When I was building P-3s, the engines, Propellers, landing gear, most avionics and APU were all GFE. Sometimes we would be required to leave some of the avionics off so the Navy would itstall them at a later date.
We have contracters from all different companies come in and install stuff on our aircraft plus the Army has its own stuff that we put on that Sikorsky does not install.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
I know hindsight is 20/20 vision, but you would think that after 2 years of war, all planes in the AAF would have been retrofitted with the self sealing tanks!
I thought you all might learn something from this post copied from the Battle of Midway Roundtable web site. Its quoted in its entirety. address below.
http://home.comcast.net/~r2russ/midway/fisher-sbd.htm
The SBD in Combat
by CDR Clayton Fisher, USN-Ret
©2005, The Battle of Midway Roundtable
(Editor's note: Clay Fisher was an SBD pilot with VB-8, USS Hornet, at the Battle of Midway. On the morning of 4 June 1942 he flew as wingman to air group commander Stanhope Ring. The following text is taken from e-mail messages to the BOMRT in 2001 and 2005. In these messages, Clay describes his dive bombing and other combat experiences in the SBD.)
* * * *
DIVING THE SBD
Check list before diving:
1. Shift to Low Blower.
2. Shift to low prop pitch. (We wanted full maximum power setting as we broke our dives.
3. Hit full split flaps. (In early 1942 the SBD had to reduce speed to be able to split the flaps, which was tough when under attack. Douglas came out with an engineering change that allowed splitting the flaps at any speed. Also, we could dive at various split flap settings.)
4. Open the cockpit hatch. I think this was to prevent the windshield from fogging up due to the changes in temperatures during the dive. (Our gunner's hatch was always open due to the twin gun mounts. In combat, the gunner was facing the tail during the dive. For training dives, he turned his seat to face forward. Those gunners were some of the bravest!
If I remember correctly, at our standard 70-degree dive with full extension of the dive flaps, our maximum diving speed was only about 240 knots. You felt like you were hanging on a string. That slow speed let us release a bomb between 1500 and 1000 feet. We could do a "snap pullout." The blackout was more severe but of a shorter time period. I always tried to lower my head for the pullout, and it reduced the blackout. In our standard dive, the plane was vertical to the water or ground, but the track downward was 70 degrees. You felt no pressure on your butt or seat belt when you had it right. It was like you were floating.
The SBD did not have shoulder straps. Sometime after the BOM, our mechanics made us a single chest strap that we could tighten for ditching, etc. I ditched at Santa Cruz without landing flaps, and I think that makeshift chest strap saved my life. &nbps I still banged my head on the instrument panel and was momentarily knocked out. I didn't remember anything after I chopped my throttle, until the cockpit filled up with water.
Our standard squadron tactic was to try to position the formation so we could roll down in either a left of right 90 degree turn to pick up the target's course. We did not form the old pre-war "Hollywood" echelon for the individual breaks from the formation. We flew 3-plane sections and 3-section divisions. On the break, the #1 plane dropped down and immediately broke 90 degrees (either right or left). The following sections ditto. The longer we could stay in formation so our gunners could fire, the more protection we had against the fighters. We practiced to see how fast we could break into our dives. With sufficiently close intervals, we could have all 9 dive bombers in a column.
The inside of the split flaps were painted red, and the last plane could see eight red bars. That prevented possible midair collisions if a pilot got out of position. If our flight leader rolled left into the dive, he turned left after his dive recovery and continued straight ahead. The other 8 planes would expedite a join-up on the inside of his turn. Getting back into formation for mutual protection was essential. We practiced this tactic, and were good at it, although in combat it was almost impossible to get all 9 planes back into formation.
I think out dive bomber tactics were far superior to the Japanese. The long initial glide and then the final pushover that the Vals used had 2 weaknesses: (a) their initial long shallow dive made our fighters' job easier, and (b) it was difficult for them to get into the final dive position. I don't know if the Vals made 70-degree dives with only the fixed landing gear acting as dive brakes.
The SBD had a glass window below the pilot's feet, which I guess was for sighting the target, and for a straight pushover dive. The glass was cleaned before takeoff, but engine oil always smeared up the glass. The SBD engine threw quite a lot of oil. You could always tell an SBD pilot by the oil on his flight helmet!
FORMATION FLYING
"Flying and fighting the SBD:
-did you commence a dive by the famous half-roll into a dive, pulling positive G, or by diving straight ahead, pulling negative G?
--where was the dive brake extension handle located?
--where was the bomb release located?
--the SBD apparently had a telescopic sight in front of the pilot. Was it used for bomb aiming or gun aiming or both?
--even in summertime, it should have been pretty cold flying at 15-19.000 ft altitude. Contemporary photos show pilots crewmen in thin clothing--no fur jackets. What did it feel like, actually?
--was there any trim change when extending the dive brakes?"
The old Hollywood movies of Navy dive bombers usually showed the formation flights "peeling off" from an echelon of aircraft "stacked up" flying a "step-up" formation" (each aircraft flying above the aircraft ahead). This was because the early dive bombers were biplanes and the upper wing would block out the plane you were flying formation on. The SBD was of course a monoplane and flew "step down" in all formations, which was a much better formation for combat. The attachment below describes the SBD flight formation.
The trim tab and dive brake controls were located on the left side of the cockpit just below the throttle handle. When we were in position to open the split flap ("dive brakes"), we hit the flap handle and as we steepened our dives. As our speed increased, we had to keep adjusting our rudder tab to keep the aircraft from skidding. The pilot's right hand and arm controlled the "joy stick."
The SBD had a manual bomb release lever down low on the left side of the cockpit and an electrical switch on the top of the joy stick.
In 1942 The SBDs had a telescope used as a bomb sight and also as a gun sight for the two forward .50 caliber machine guns that fired through the propeller. Later SBD models had a virtual image combination bomb and gun sight.
Most of the SBDs flew at about 12 to 14 thousand feet, and it did get pretty cold but the June weather during the BOM was tolerable.
Estimating the correct "lead" on a fast moving ship and keeping the rudder trimmed were the secrets to obtaining a direct bomb hit. It took a lot of practice bombing on a moving target to become a proficient dive bomber pilot. Unfortunately, most of the younger dive bomber pilots that flew during BOOM never had the opportunity to practice very much dive bombing in the SBD.
IN COMBAT SITUATIONS WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO STAY IN OUR DEFENSE FORMATION AS LONG AS POSSIBLE UNTIL OUR FLIGHT LEADER LED US INTO OUR 70 DEGREE DIVES. OUR FLIGHT LEADER WOULD ROLL INTO A 90 DEGREE SHARP NOSE DOWN TURN AND HIS INSIDE WINGMAN BROKE NEXT, FOLLOWED BY HIS OUTSIDE WINGMAN. THE SECTIONS BEHIND BROKE THE FORMATION THE SAME WAY. WE WANTED TO GET INTO OUR DIVES AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. ONCE IN OUR 70 DEGREE DIVES, THE ZERO FIGHTERS COULD NOT ATTACK BUT HAD TO SPIRAL DOWN AND ATTACK AFTER WE PULLED OUT. OUR FLIGHT LEADER WOULD ALWAYS TRY TO DO A 90 DEGREE TURN AFTER PULLING OUT OF HIS DIVE SO WE COULD JOIN UP ON THE INSIDE OF HIS TURN. THEN IT WAS A SIMPLE RELATIVE BEARING PROBLEM, JUST SIGHTING THROUGH THE BACK EDGE OF YOUR WINDSHIELD AT THE PLANE'S WINDSHIELD YOU WERE JOINING UP ON. ACQUIRING THAT POSITION QUICKLY PUT YOU BACK IN FORMATION.
IN A 70 DEGREE DIVE WITH THOSE VERY EFFECTIVE DIVE BRAKES WE COULD RELEASE OUR BOMBS AS LOW AS 1200 TO 1500 FEET.
SO MANY ARTISTS CONCEPTS OF SBDs ATTACKING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS SHOW THE PLANES GLIDE BOMBING. I WILL DESCRIBE THE STANDARD SBD DIVE BOMBING RUN DURING 1942. IT WAS A 70 DEGREE DIVE--THE PLANE'S TRACK OR PATH IS 70 DEGREES, BUT THE PLANE IS IN A VERTICAL POSITION TO THE SURFACE OF THE WATER. YOU KNEW WHEN YOU WERE IN A GOOD 70 DEGREE DIVE WHEN YOUR BUTT WAS NOT PUSHED AGAINST THE SEAT NOR WERE YOU HANGING ON YOUR SAFETY BELT. YOU WERE SORT OF FLOATING BETWEEN THE SEAT AND YOUR SAFETY BELT.
THE SPLIT FLAPS, OR WHAT THE PILOTS CALLED DIVE BRAKES, WERE PAINTED BRIGHT RED ON THE INSIDE OF THE FLAPS. THE HOLES HELPED CREATE MORE DRAG. WHEN WE BROKE OUR FORMATIONS STARTED OUR 70 DEGREE DIVES IN A LONG COLUMN, YOU COULD SEE THOSE RED FLAPS OF ALL THE PLANES DIVING AHEAD OF YOU.
I THINK THE DOUGLAS AIRCRAFT DESIGNER WHO CONCEIVED THIS FLAP ARRANGEMENT WAS A GENIUS. EARLY IN 1942 DOUGLAS MADE A FLAP MODIFICATION THAT LET THE DIVE FLAPS OPEN AT HIGH APPROACH SPEEDS AS WE STARTED IN TO OUR DIVES. OUR MAXIMUM DIVE SPEEDS WERE ACTUALLY PRETTY SLOW, AROUND 240 KNOTS. YOU FELT LIKE YOU WERE JUST HANGING THERE AND GOING TOO SLOW WHEN THE AA STUFF WAS COMING AT YOU.
ANOTHER GREAT FEATURE OF THE FLAP ARRANGEMENT WAS TO BE ABLE TO "COLLAPSE" THEM JUST AS YOU STARTED PULLING OUT OF THE DIVE. THIS GREATLY ACCELERATED THE PLANE'S SPEED AND GAVE THE JAPANESE GUNNERS PROBLEMS LEADING THE TARGET WITH THEIR GUNS.
ALL NAVY SBD DIVE BOMBER SQUADRONS FLEW COMBAT MISSIONS FROM A STANDARD 9 PLANE DIVISION OF 3-PLANE SECTIONS, WITH THE SECTIONS AND THE WINGMEN FLYING IN STEPPED DOWN POSITION. THAT FORMATION PROVIDED MAXIMUM FIREPOWER FROM THE RAPID FIRING TWIN MOUNTED .30 CALIBER GUNS, BRINGING A POSSIBLE 18 GUNS TO BEAR ON ATTACKING ZERO FIGHTERS.
For more on Clay Fisher and the SBD, see his report of the Battle of Santa Cruz on the Pacific War Historical Society web site:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/battleforaustralia/Guadalcanal/ClaytonFisheratSantaCruz.html
http://home.comcast.net/~r2russ/midway/fisher-sbd.htm
The SBD in Combat
by CDR Clayton Fisher, USN-Ret
©2005, The Battle of Midway Roundtable
(Editor's note: Clay Fisher was an SBD pilot with VB-8, USS Hornet, at the Battle of Midway. On the morning of 4 June 1942 he flew as wingman to air group commander Stanhope Ring. The following text is taken from e-mail messages to the BOMRT in 2001 and 2005. In these messages, Clay describes his dive bombing and other combat experiences in the SBD.)
* * * *
DIVING THE SBD
Check list before diving:
1. Shift to Low Blower.
2. Shift to low prop pitch. (We wanted full maximum power setting as we broke our dives.
3. Hit full split flaps. (In early 1942 the SBD had to reduce speed to be able to split the flaps, which was tough when under attack. Douglas came out with an engineering change that allowed splitting the flaps at any speed. Also, we could dive at various split flap settings.)
4. Open the cockpit hatch. I think this was to prevent the windshield from fogging up due to the changes in temperatures during the dive. (Our gunner's hatch was always open due to the twin gun mounts. In combat, the gunner was facing the tail during the dive. For training dives, he turned his seat to face forward. Those gunners were some of the bravest!
If I remember correctly, at our standard 70-degree dive with full extension of the dive flaps, our maximum diving speed was only about 240 knots. You felt like you were hanging on a string. That slow speed let us release a bomb between 1500 and 1000 feet. We could do a "snap pullout." The blackout was more severe but of a shorter time period. I always tried to lower my head for the pullout, and it reduced the blackout. In our standard dive, the plane was vertical to the water or ground, but the track downward was 70 degrees. You felt no pressure on your butt or seat belt when you had it right. It was like you were floating.
The SBD did not have shoulder straps. Sometime after the BOM, our mechanics made us a single chest strap that we could tighten for ditching, etc. I ditched at Santa Cruz without landing flaps, and I think that makeshift chest strap saved my life. &nbps I still banged my head on the instrument panel and was momentarily knocked out. I didn't remember anything after I chopped my throttle, until the cockpit filled up with water.
Our standard squadron tactic was to try to position the formation so we could roll down in either a left of right 90 degree turn to pick up the target's course. We did not form the old pre-war "Hollywood" echelon for the individual breaks from the formation. We flew 3-plane sections and 3-section divisions. On the break, the #1 plane dropped down and immediately broke 90 degrees (either right or left). The following sections ditto. The longer we could stay in formation so our gunners could fire, the more protection we had against the fighters. We practiced to see how fast we could break into our dives. With sufficiently close intervals, we could have all 9 dive bombers in a column.
The inside of the split flaps were painted red, and the last plane could see eight red bars. That prevented possible midair collisions if a pilot got out of position. If our flight leader rolled left into the dive, he turned left after his dive recovery and continued straight ahead. The other 8 planes would expedite a join-up on the inside of his turn. Getting back into formation for mutual protection was essential. We practiced this tactic, and were good at it, although in combat it was almost impossible to get all 9 planes back into formation.
I think out dive bomber tactics were far superior to the Japanese. The long initial glide and then the final pushover that the Vals used had 2 weaknesses: (a) their initial long shallow dive made our fighters' job easier, and (b) it was difficult for them to get into the final dive position. I don't know if the Vals made 70-degree dives with only the fixed landing gear acting as dive brakes.
The SBD had a glass window below the pilot's feet, which I guess was for sighting the target, and for a straight pushover dive. The glass was cleaned before takeoff, but engine oil always smeared up the glass. The SBD engine threw quite a lot of oil. You could always tell an SBD pilot by the oil on his flight helmet!
FORMATION FLYING
"Flying and fighting the SBD:
-did you commence a dive by the famous half-roll into a dive, pulling positive G, or by diving straight ahead, pulling negative G?
--where was the dive brake extension handle located?
--where was the bomb release located?
--the SBD apparently had a telescopic sight in front of the pilot. Was it used for bomb aiming or gun aiming or both?
--even in summertime, it should have been pretty cold flying at 15-19.000 ft altitude. Contemporary photos show pilots crewmen in thin clothing--no fur jackets. What did it feel like, actually?
--was there any trim change when extending the dive brakes?"
The old Hollywood movies of Navy dive bombers usually showed the formation flights "peeling off" from an echelon of aircraft "stacked up" flying a "step-up" formation" (each aircraft flying above the aircraft ahead). This was because the early dive bombers were biplanes and the upper wing would block out the plane you were flying formation on. The SBD was of course a monoplane and flew "step down" in all formations, which was a much better formation for combat. The attachment below describes the SBD flight formation.
The trim tab and dive brake controls were located on the left side of the cockpit just below the throttle handle. When we were in position to open the split flap ("dive brakes"), we hit the flap handle and as we steepened our dives. As our speed increased, we had to keep adjusting our rudder tab to keep the aircraft from skidding. The pilot's right hand and arm controlled the "joy stick."
The SBD had a manual bomb release lever down low on the left side of the cockpit and an electrical switch on the top of the joy stick.
In 1942 The SBDs had a telescope used as a bomb sight and also as a gun sight for the two forward .50 caliber machine guns that fired through the propeller. Later SBD models had a virtual image combination bomb and gun sight.
Most of the SBDs flew at about 12 to 14 thousand feet, and it did get pretty cold but the June weather during the BOM was tolerable.
Estimating the correct "lead" on a fast moving ship and keeping the rudder trimmed were the secrets to obtaining a direct bomb hit. It took a lot of practice bombing on a moving target to become a proficient dive bomber pilot. Unfortunately, most of the younger dive bomber pilots that flew during BOOM never had the opportunity to practice very much dive bombing in the SBD.
IN COMBAT SITUATIONS WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO STAY IN OUR DEFENSE FORMATION AS LONG AS POSSIBLE UNTIL OUR FLIGHT LEADER LED US INTO OUR 70 DEGREE DIVES. OUR FLIGHT LEADER WOULD ROLL INTO A 90 DEGREE SHARP NOSE DOWN TURN AND HIS INSIDE WINGMAN BROKE NEXT, FOLLOWED BY HIS OUTSIDE WINGMAN. THE SECTIONS BEHIND BROKE THE FORMATION THE SAME WAY. WE WANTED TO GET INTO OUR DIVES AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. ONCE IN OUR 70 DEGREE DIVES, THE ZERO FIGHTERS COULD NOT ATTACK BUT HAD TO SPIRAL DOWN AND ATTACK AFTER WE PULLED OUT. OUR FLIGHT LEADER WOULD ALWAYS TRY TO DO A 90 DEGREE TURN AFTER PULLING OUT OF HIS DIVE SO WE COULD JOIN UP ON THE INSIDE OF HIS TURN. THEN IT WAS A SIMPLE RELATIVE BEARING PROBLEM, JUST SIGHTING THROUGH THE BACK EDGE OF YOUR WINDSHIELD AT THE PLANE'S WINDSHIELD YOU WERE JOINING UP ON. ACQUIRING THAT POSITION QUICKLY PUT YOU BACK IN FORMATION.
IN A 70 DEGREE DIVE WITH THOSE VERY EFFECTIVE DIVE BRAKES WE COULD RELEASE OUR BOMBS AS LOW AS 1200 TO 1500 FEET.
SO MANY ARTISTS CONCEPTS OF SBDs ATTACKING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS SHOW THE PLANES GLIDE BOMBING. I WILL DESCRIBE THE STANDARD SBD DIVE BOMBING RUN DURING 1942. IT WAS A 70 DEGREE DIVE--THE PLANE'S TRACK OR PATH IS 70 DEGREES, BUT THE PLANE IS IN A VERTICAL POSITION TO THE SURFACE OF THE WATER. YOU KNEW WHEN YOU WERE IN A GOOD 70 DEGREE DIVE WHEN YOUR BUTT WAS NOT PUSHED AGAINST THE SEAT NOR WERE YOU HANGING ON YOUR SAFETY BELT. YOU WERE SORT OF FLOATING BETWEEN THE SEAT AND YOUR SAFETY BELT.
THE SPLIT FLAPS, OR WHAT THE PILOTS CALLED DIVE BRAKES, WERE PAINTED BRIGHT RED ON THE INSIDE OF THE FLAPS. THE HOLES HELPED CREATE MORE DRAG. WHEN WE BROKE OUR FORMATIONS STARTED OUR 70 DEGREE DIVES IN A LONG COLUMN, YOU COULD SEE THOSE RED FLAPS OF ALL THE PLANES DIVING AHEAD OF YOU.
I THINK THE DOUGLAS AIRCRAFT DESIGNER WHO CONCEIVED THIS FLAP ARRANGEMENT WAS A GENIUS. EARLY IN 1942 DOUGLAS MADE A FLAP MODIFICATION THAT LET THE DIVE FLAPS OPEN AT HIGH APPROACH SPEEDS AS WE STARTED IN TO OUR DIVES. OUR MAXIMUM DIVE SPEEDS WERE ACTUALLY PRETTY SLOW, AROUND 240 KNOTS. YOU FELT LIKE YOU WERE JUST HANGING THERE AND GOING TOO SLOW WHEN THE AA STUFF WAS COMING AT YOU.
ANOTHER GREAT FEATURE OF THE FLAP ARRANGEMENT WAS TO BE ABLE TO "COLLAPSE" THEM JUST AS YOU STARTED PULLING OUT OF THE DIVE. THIS GREATLY ACCELERATED THE PLANE'S SPEED AND GAVE THE JAPANESE GUNNERS PROBLEMS LEADING THE TARGET WITH THEIR GUNS.
ALL NAVY SBD DIVE BOMBER SQUADRONS FLEW COMBAT MISSIONS FROM A STANDARD 9 PLANE DIVISION OF 3-PLANE SECTIONS, WITH THE SECTIONS AND THE WINGMEN FLYING IN STEPPED DOWN POSITION. THAT FORMATION PROVIDED MAXIMUM FIREPOWER FROM THE RAPID FIRING TWIN MOUNTED .30 CALIBER GUNS, BRINGING A POSSIBLE 18 GUNS TO BEAR ON ATTACKING ZERO FIGHTERS.
For more on Clay Fisher and the SBD, see his report of the Battle of Santa Cruz on the Pacific War Historical Society web site:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/battleforaustralia/Guadalcanal/ClaytonFisheratSantaCruz.html
Good info thanks.
R Leonard
Staff Sergeant
There are, of course, some published histories that will tell you that Clay Fisher was killed in the Solomons, at the Battle Santa Cruz, I believe. Clay protests that the rumors of his demise are somewhat unfounded and a little premature.
Rich
Rich
Nice info quayhog.
- Thread starter
- #140
Okay folks.....
This has been a very informative discussion, and quite honestly, I hadn't meant for it to be as contentious as it was.....sorry.
It's been a couple of weeks, and I'm still interested in the topic. Several people from other groups and forums have expressed an interest also.
So, I've begun an SBD discussion group on YAHOO. Here's the link to join...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SBD-Dauntless/
I hope we're able to generate enough discussion about the plane, it's history, it's role as a dive bomber, and the various models and kits that are available.
I'd love to have you join us.
Thanks for all the information.
This has been a very informative discussion, and quite honestly, I hadn't meant for it to be as contentious as it was.....sorry.
It's been a couple of weeks, and I'm still interested in the topic. Several people from other groups and forums have expressed an interest also.
So, I've begun an SBD discussion group on YAHOO. Here's the link to join...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SBD-Dauntless/
I hope we're able to generate enough discussion about the plane, it's history, it's role as a dive bomber, and the various models and kits that are available.
I'd love to have you join us.
Thanks for all the information.
