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The population of Sweden was 6.4 million in 1940, and it was able to maintain a competent ordnance industry. I realize that Australia's geographic situation was different, but this could give Australia a better domestic air transport market, and its position in the Commonwealth may permit it easier access to British possessions in Africa and Asia. Note that the idea of industrializing Australia would require a major change in attitude in London, as it was colonial policy to discourage industrialization outside of the British Isles. It was pretty much universal for imperial powers to discourage industry and promote extractive industry and cash crops, vs food production.
Such a change in policy would have had to start well before the start of WW2, probably no later than the first decades of the 20th Century.
The leadership of the various Dominions weren't stupid; they knew that the RN couldn't -- not wouldn't -- defend them in the event of a world-wide conflict where the Japanese were a major enemy. Australia, at least, was making or threatening to make, overtures to the US for supply of military equipment because of this. How much of the perceived Japanese threat, at least in the early 1930s, was due to racial paranoia (the "yellow peril") and how much of it was due to a realistic assessment of Japanese intentions is moot (I suspect it was under-estimated in London and
Alas, for them, British policy had been to retard industrialization of the dominions, even the white dominions, for the benefit of industries in the British Isles. Canada was probably the most industrially advanced of the dominions, but that was largely because of the proximity to the US.
I've wondered for quite some time how WW2 and world history (or at least Australasian history) would have proceeded differently had the policy in London had been to promote industry in the British Empire. How would the war in the China-Burma-India theatre have proceeded were India capable of producing all the uniforms, transport, artillery, small arms, and ammunition needed for the Indian Army and Australia capable of designing and mass producing modern combat aircraft and tanks?
BoforsComparing Sweden with Australia is definitely comparing apples and pears. Sweden was easy to defend and compact with both resources easily available and it was technically advanced. Despite these advantages name one piece of equipment that was at least a match for any of the main participants.
Australia would have been very hard pressed to defend its coastline even if they threw everything into it's navy, with 20 years to prepare.
Comparing Sweden with Australia is definitely comparing apples and pears. Sweden was easy to defend and compact with both resources easily available and it was technically advanced. Despite these advantages name one piece of equipment that was at least a match for any of the main participants.
Australia would have been very hard pressed to defend its coastline even if they threw everything into it's navy, with 20 years to prepare.
I have to give you that one, Bofors is a clear example.Sorry swampyankee, I still haven't figured out how to "quote" correctly. I was trying to quote Glider.
What would the UK have had to give up, other than honor, to cut a deal with Hitler? Its Jewish population?
Comparing Sweden with Australia is definitely comparing apples and pears. Sweden was easy to defend and compact with both resources easily available and it was technically advanced. Despite these advantages name one piece of equipment that was at least a match for any of the main participants.
Australia would have been very hard pressed to defend its coastline even if they threw everything into it's navy, with 20 years to prepare.
The British only ever contemplated supporting the Americans in the Pacific War, not fighting Japan alone.Today? Ok.
Anyone here from the Dominions? The Royal Navy will not protect you in the event of a full scale Japanese invasion.
1943, USS ROBIN aka HMS VICTORIOUS, operating out of New Caledonia, IIRC.Can you advise when a RN fleet were near Australia?
1942 looks like Indian Ocean Ceylon Madagascar and so on. Can't see any Australian or New Zealand encounters.
One ship a fleet ain't. And this was USN not RN.1943, USS ROBIN aka HMS VICTORIOUS, operating out of New Caledonia, IIRC.
Yes, and Sweden had industrialized trading partners nearby. There's always some give and take in terms of Anglo-Australian military and industrial relations but ultimately it was the Australian taxpayer that didn't want to spend the money to subsidize domestic production beyond a certain point, ditto for Canada.
Ultimately certain projects that Australia entered into, like tank and Bofors production, might not have been very cost effective. OTOH, Lendlease from the USA, (and Commonwealth Mutual Aid from Canada) also offered a disincentive for Dominions to spend on industrial plants for war production.
Can you advise when a RN fleet were near Australia?
1942 looks like Indian Ocean Ceylon Madagascar and so on. Can't see any Australian or New Zealand encounters.
Can you advise when a RN fleet were near Australia?
1942 looks like Indian Ocean Ceylon Madagascar and so on. Can't see any Australian or New Zealand encounters.
Hitler was attacking the UK for a reason; he was not going to just say "OK; glad you want a peace. That's it, then. Have a good day."
He would have demands. What they would be are moot, but they would exist. At the very least, they would include a
Canada didn't want to spend money on defense, pretty much period. I suspect a big chunk of that was because the francophone Canadians felt themselves to be politically and economically marginalized, and felt no loyalty to their national overseers in London.
Indeed, all the Commonwealth countries still had some sense of enforced dependence on London: they had restrictions in the domestic laws they could pass, and their defense planning was not entirely independent.
Looks like HMS Repulse's Dec 1941 run to Darwin was as close as Australia got to have any heavy RN units since the February 1924 Sydney visit by HMS Hood and Repulse. It's too bad that the entirety of Force Z wasn't at Darwin when the shooting started, as they would have likely have been more diligently employed, including waiting for a carrier (Hermes or Indomitable) to arrive.Can you advise when a RN fleet were near Australia?
1942 looks like Indian Ocean Ceylon Madagascar and so on. Can't see any Australian or New Zealand encounters.
Looks like HMS Repulse's Dec 1941 run to Darwin was a close as Australia got to have any heavy RN units since the February 1924 Sydney visit by HMS Hood and Repulse. It's too bad that the entirety of Force Z wasn't at Darwin when the shooting started, as they would have likely have been more diligently employed, including waiting for a carrier (Hermes or Indomitable) to arrive.
HMS Repulse, British battlecruiser, WW2
5th – REPULSE escorted by the destroyers TENEDOS and HMAS VAMPIRE sailed from Singapore for Darwin for a 'showing the flag' visit to Australia.
6th – At 1330 hours en route to Darwin, REPULSE and her escort were recalled to Singapore.
In Feb 1942, HMS Hermes was ordered to Freemantle where the Allies had a regional command centre, but was recalled to Ceylon to join Sommerville's eastern fleet.
That's where Prince of Wales and Repulse (plus Indomitable and Hermes) would have been useful. Of course the IJN and the Kido Butai (aka the IJN's 1st Air Fleet) would have sent something equally heavy to counter them.There were RN units as part of the ABDA, which were lost near Java, whilst attempting to fight their way to Australia in Feb-March 1942.
I've wondered for quite some time how WW2 and world history (or at least Australasian history) would have proceeded differently had the policy in London had been to promote industry in the British Empire. How would the war in the China-Burma-India theatre have proceeded were India capable of producing all the uniforms, transport, artillery, small arms, and ammunition needed for the Indian Army and Australia capable of designing and mass producing modern combat aircraft and tanks?