Shades of 1930?

[tail end charlie]

So the Koreans abandoned the Chinese characters.
Since Mongolian, Korean and Japanese are brothers linguistically, we may have to consider it too

shinpachi I was told several times that the korean flag is based on Chinese characters (sorry cant remember the details)

The fact that these characters were used before china ever became a nation is of course completely ignored.

 

[Shinpachi]

shinpachi I was told several times that the korean flag is based on Chinese characters (sorry cant remember the details)

The fact that these characters were used before china ever became a nation is of course completely ignored.

Yes, I have ever heard that the Korean flag design is based on Yin Yang philosophy of ancient China.
My Korean friend once said "The center disc of twisted red and blue shows male and female".
I don't know if it's true (Sorry, Mr. Shin)

 

[tail end charlie]

Yes, I have ever heard that the Korean flag design is based on Yin Yang philosophy of ancient China.
My Korean friend once said "The center disc of twisted red and blue shows male and female".
I don't know if it's true (Sorry, Mr. Shin)

Yes, but not only that the outer symbols I was told had their origins in china too.

 

[mikewint]

The so called rare earth elements have become immensely important to modern technology, most goes into catalytic converters both for auto directly and petroleum refining, lasers, optical amps for fibre optic cables (we're probably doing this internet over those very cables). the US and India used to be top suppliers until the chinese undercut everyone and competing mines closed much as what the mid-east does to energy competetors. there are deposits elsewhere, mountain pass, calif is opening soon, mount weld, australia and hoidas lake, canada are coming on line with huge deposits.
again the so called rare earth are not rare in abundance it was their chemical/physical pureification that made pure samples rare. today, ion-exchange resins and fractional crystalization make purification a lot easier

 

[Shinpachi]

Well, Japan has begun to review her dependence on the rare earth metals.

 

[mikewint]

Well, Japan has begun to review her dependence on the rare earth metals.

Unfortunately, if you want all these hi-tech things there is no substitute:
Major Uses of Rare Earth Elements

Lanthanum comes from the mineral bastnasite, and is extracted via a method called "solvent extraction." Lanthanum is a strategically important rare earth element due to its activity in catalysts that are critical in petroleum refining. By one estimate, lanthanum "cracking-agents" increase refinery yield by as much as 10%, while reducing overall refinery power consumption.

Cerium is the most abundant of the rare earth elements. Cerium is critical in the manufacture of environmental protection and pollution-control systems, from automobiles to oil refineries. Cerium oxides, and other cerium compounds, go into catalytic converters and larger-scale equipment to reduce the sulfur oxide emissions. Cerium is a diesel fuel additive for micro-filtration of pollutants, and promotes more complete fuel combustion for more energy efficiency.

Neodymium is a critical component of strong permanent magnets. Cell phones, portable CD players, computers and most modern sound systems would not exist in their current form without using neodymium magnets. Neodymium-Iron- Boron (NdFeB) permanent magnets are essential for miniaturizing a variety of technologies. These magnets maximize the power/cost ratio, and are used in a large variety of motors and mechanical systems.

Europium offers exceptional properties of photon emission. When it absorbs electrons or UV radiation, the europium atom changes energy levels to create a visible, luminescent emission. This emission creates the perfect red phosphors used in color televisions and computer screens around the world. Europium is also used in fluorescent lighting, which cuts energy use by 75% compared to incandescent lighting. In the medical field, europium is used to tag complex biochemical agents which helps to trace these materials during tissue research.

Praseodymium comprises just 4% of the lanthanide content of bastnasite, but is used as a common coloring pigment. Along with neodymium, praseodymium is used to filter certain wavelengths of light. So praseodymium finds specific uses in photographic filters, airport signal lenses, welder's glasses, as well as broad uses in ceramic tile and glass (usually yellow). When used in an alloy, praseodymium is a component of permanent magnet systems designed for small motors. Praseodymium also has applications in internal combustion engines, as a catalyst for pollution control.

Yttrium is rare in bastnasite, so is usually recovered from even more obscure minerals and ores. Still, almost every vehicle on the road contains yttriumbased materials that improve the fuel efficiency of the engine. Another important use of yttrium is in microwave communication devices. Yttrium- Iron-Garnets (YIG) are used as resonators in frequency meters, magnetic field measurement devices, tunable transistors and Gunn oscillators. Yttrium goes into laser crystals specific to spectral characteristics for high-performance communication systems.

Other Rare Earth Elements

Most of the remaining lanthanides fall into the group known as the "heavies" and include: Samarium, Gadolinium, Dysprosium, Terbium, Holmium, Erbium, Thulium, Ytterbium, and Lutetium.

Samarium has properties of spectral absorption that make it useful in filter glasses that surround neodymium laser rods.

Gadolinium offers unique magnetic behavior. Thus this element is at the heart of magneto-optic recording technology, and other technology used in handling computer data.

Dysprosium is a widely used rare earth element that helps to make electronic components smaller and faster.

Terbium is used in energy efficient fluorescent lamps. There are various terbium metal alloys that provide metallic films for magnetooptic data recording.

Holmium is exceedingly rare and expensive. Hence it has few commercial uses.

Erbium has remarkable optical properties that make it essential for use in long-range fiber optic data transmission.

Thulium is the rarest of the rare earth elements. Its chemistry is similar to that of Yttrium. Due to its unique photographic properties, Thulium is used in sensitive X-ray phosphors to reduce X-ray exposure.

Ytterbium resembles Yttrium in broad chemical behavior. When subject to high stresses, the electrical resistance of the metal increases by an order of magnitude. So ytterbium is used in stress gauges to monitor ground deformations caused, for example, by earthquakes or underground explosions.

Lutetium, the last member of the Lanthanide series is, along with thulium, the least abundant. It is recovered, by ion-exchange routines, in small quantities from yttrium-concentrates and is available as a high-purity oxide. Cerium-doped lutetium oxyorthosilicate (LSO) is currently used in detectors in positron emission tomography (PET).

 

[Shinpachi]

Embargo by China was anticipated by the Japanese makers for a long time because China needs such rare earth metals more and more for herself year by year.
Embargo this time is expected bringing the limited impact to the Japanese makers. For more details through the google translation.

 

[michaelmaltby]

".... the parallels between the PRC and Imperial Germany are striking."

Interesting observation, Syscom. Care to elaborate a wee bit ?

MM

 

[timshatz]

Embargo by China was anticipated by the Japanese makers for a long time because China needs such rare earth metals more and more for herself year by year.
Embargo this time is expected bringing the limited impact to the Japanese makers. For more details through the google translation.

Ahhhh man, everybody remember what happened last time somebody embargoed Japan? Last time, Japan was an agressor nation. This time, no chance. Just defending what is recognized (for the most part) as hers.

I agree with Sys that some small time islands somewhere in the South China Seas will probably be the focus of the next war but it has a ways to go yet. Like the begining of the last century, there should be a "crisis" every couple of years before one goes from crisis to conflict. And usually, there are a few regional brawls or general instability in the region that promotes the larger conflict.

No way to tell if this is just banana republic stuff or the setting for a larger conflict until it happens. But it bares watching.

 

[timshatz]

".... the parallels between the PRC and Imperial Germany are striking."

Interesting observation, Syscom. Care to elaborate a wee bit ?

MM

Growing industrial power.
Sole party leadership.
Increasing Military Strength.
Expanding Navy.
Fear, on the part of the Chinese, that others might be gaining on them
Feeling, on the part of the chinese, that they are somewhat oppressed and the future is their right.
Growing nationalism.
A region with a long history of local wars.

 

[tail end charlie]

Growing industrial power.
Sole party leadership.
Increasing Military Strength.
Expanding Navy.
Fear, on the part of the Chinese, that others might be gaining on them
Feeling, on the part of the chinese, that they are somewhat oppressed and the future is their right.
Growing nationalism.
A region with a long history of local wars.

You could also add a draconian state propaganda machine widespread censorship and a re invented history to substantiate modern territorial claims.

 

[mikewint]

No matter how much you stock pile or recycle sooner or later Japan is going to run short and technology is ever changing so what new metal is going to be required. hopefully US, Canadian, and Australian sources will be on line by then because the US is in the same position

 

[mikewint]

Ahhhh man, everybody remember what happened last time somebody embargoed Japan? Last time, Japan was an agressor nation. This time, no chance. Just defending what is recognized (for the most part) as hers.

Depends on what any nation decides "belongs" to it. Prior to Pearl Harbor Japan felt those oil supplies "belonged" to it and they could not survive as an industrial nation without them. Would the US do any different today if suddenly mid-east oil supplies were embargoed from us. nations like people do desperate things in desperate times

 

[Shinpachi]

Ahhhh man, everybody remember what happened last time somebody embargoed Japan? Last time, Japan was an agressor nation. This time, no chance. Just defending what is recognized (for the most part) as hers.

The embargo by somebody last time was a good experience for the Japanese to understand the importance of risk hedge

No matter how much you stock pile or recycle sooner or later Japan is going to run short and technology is ever changing so what new metal is going to be required. hopefully US, Canadian, and Australian sources will be on line by then because the US is in the same position

I always appreciate your kind advice, mikewint.
Thank you very much.

 

[timshatz]

Depends on what any nation decides "belongs" to it. Prior to Pearl Harbor Japan felt those oil supplies "belonged" to it and they could not survive as an industrial nation without them. Would the US do any different today if suddenly mid-east oil supplies were embargoed from us. nations like people do desperate things in desperate times

That argument is a bit of a stretch. While I can understand the perspective that they considered it part of their strategic influence (as we would today), the Japanese of 1930-40 had a shoot first, never ask questions mentality. They invaded or attacked every country surrounding them with the exception of Canada. Don't believe they had anything good to say about Canada, they just didn't get around to it.

The US has not had a record anywhere near that. The Monroe Doctrine established the idea that we will fight outside forces in our Hemisphere but it did not say we would take over countries in the hemisphere. Even the Banana Wars of the 1920/30s, were cases where the US sent troops in to stabelize and then left. Japan didn't believe in leaving.

 

[mikewint]

tim, i was not trying to draw a direct parallel and i don't want to draw this thread in another direction or get political but the US is firmly attached to the mid-east teet. we could not survive as a nation without that oil. if that oil were cut off for whatever reason we would have no choice. The US cannot be run with horses. desperate nations like desperate men do desperate things and justify them later

 

[timshatz]

No problem Mike, it's not a political argument. The US gets most of it's oil from Canada, followed by Saudi Arabia, then Mexico, Nigeria and Venezuela. The political situations in all those countries run the gamut from Friendly (Canada) to Hostile (Venezuela). Yet none of them have been invaded by the US. Simply not a way we do business as a nation. While oil is hugely important to us (and every other developed country in the world). Here is a link to the details:

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

The US also has domestic reserves that are not available for Political reasons. If the pressure were great enough, it is a pretty good bet we would drill in those places that are currently offline. How long that would take is an open question. But considering the option of going to war or drilling, I'm inclined to think we would drill first if it came down to it. Especially if our enemy had an industrial base that was many times the size of our base, a situation Japan faced in 1941.

I understand where you are coming from in the respect that we have "interests" ("Nations don't have friends, they have interests"). But don't think our interests are pursued with the same ruthlessness that Japan showed in the 30s. To my mind they are two different perspectives. Similar at points, but different in crucial moral points.

 

[mikewint]

the japanese made two eventually fatal errors, failure to launch secondary attack waves which would have taked out those tank farms and the most serious, not having troop ships to attack via land. if you're going to attack someone a lot bigger than you, go all out, 'cause if he gets up....
tim, i guess i've seen too much of men acting in their countries "best interests". morality is the first to go when you are dealing with them. it's only a matter of time before these countries decide that they had better keep some of their natural resources for themselves as china is doing now. we actually have more oil than the mid-east locked up in oil shale. process a couple of tons and a whole barrel of oil. there is only so much oil in the world, it's only a question of time. i really hope morality wins but i won't bet the ranch on it. i need a place to keep my horse

 

[timshatz]

tim, i guess i've seen too much of men acting in their countries "best interests". morality is the first to go when you are dealing with them. it's only a matter of time before these countries decide that they had better keep some of their natural resources for themselves as china is doing now. we actually have more oil than the mid-east locked up in oil shale. process a couple of tons and a whole barrel of oil. there is only so much oil in the world, it's only a question of time. i really hope morality wins but i won't bet the ranch on it. i need a place to keep my horse

I'm inclined to agree with you. The Far East has a history of long and very bloody wars. Total War didn't start in the West, it may've been refined here but the Far East were hard at it a long time ago. It was the place where any number of innovations occured that ended up killing people in larger numbers (Crossbow, Gunpowder, ect).

It is odd but the innovations go hand in hand with the Massacres. Not really odd so much (you would figure a new weapon would be better at killing than the old one, otherwise why bother making it) as....I dunno, unfortunate, sad, depressing...not sure what the word is for it.

But I agree that the Eastern perspective on spheres of influence will greatly affect the potential for war out there. And Oil is the big one when it comes to strategic materials.

Just hope we stay on our side of the Pacific.

 

[mikewint]

tim, as long as the question is one of rare earth metals we're in a relatively good position. there are three mines in the US (not active at present) and Canada is developing a huge mine.
petroleum on the other hand is another question as china develops and becomes more and more industrialized its thirst for oil will increase exponentially. sooner, than later we're going to going head to head over that last pork-chop