Shades of 1930?
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tail end charlie
Senior Airman
- 615
- Aug 24, 2010
Shinpachi
The great wall of china goes through present day China but originally marked its northern border
from wiki
The Chinese were already familiar with the techniques of wall-building by the time of the Spring and Autumn Period, which began around the 8th century BC.[5][6] During the Warring States Period from the 5th century BC to 221 BC, the states of Qin, Wei, Zhao, Qi, Yan and Zhongshan[7][8] all constructed extensive fortifications to defend their own borders. Built to withstand the attack of small arms such as swords and spears, these walls were made mostly by stamping earth and gravel between board frames.
The Kamikaze (神風, Japanese for divine wind), were two winds or storms that are said to have saved Japan from two Mongol fleets under Kublai Khan. These fleets attacked Japan in 1274 and again in 1281
Japan made two invasions of Korea, in Japan's first invasion 1592 and 1596, creating war along the length of the peninsula until, with a truce period, 1598. Those Imjin Wars involved China and resulted in further conflicts on the Korean Peninsula.
unquote
I dont make any excuse for the British conduct in the Opium Wars or their part in the Boxer rebelion but I dont agree that prior to European and later American involvement the region was a peaceful idyll.
I am glad TEC you have taken my post as a historical one.
I don't want to make it political either.
Thanks for your good understanding.
Sorry for my insufficient comment last time.
Korea was combined to Japan in 1910 formally based on the treaty though it was unfair one.
There was no war between China and Japan from 1281 to 1894 more than six hundreds years.
It was more than three hundreds years between Korea and Japan.
That was long enough to forget how to make a war.
China was totally forgetting how to fight, so she was easily colonized.
Japan also astonished to receive the modernized US fleet led by Commodore Perry in 1853.
To avoid colonization, through Meiji Revolution, she decided to westernize the nation with militarism in 1867.
I understand this was the beginning for the later destructive ending in 1945.
Western nations taught Japan how to make a modern war but she did not learn how to control it well.
I don't want to make it political either.
Thanks for your good understanding.
Sorry for my insufficient comment last time.
Korea was combined to Japan in 1910 formally based on the treaty though it was unfair one.
There was no war between China and Japan from 1281 to 1894 more than six hundreds years.
It was more than three hundreds years between Korea and Japan.
That was long enough to forget how to make a war.
China was totally forgetting how to fight, so she was easily colonized.
Japan also astonished to receive the modernized US fleet led by Commodore Perry in 1853.
To avoid colonization, through Meiji Revolution, she decided to westernize the nation with militarism in 1867.
I understand this was the beginning for the later destructive ending in 1945.
Western nations taught Japan how to make a modern war but she did not learn how to control it well.
mikewint
Captain
Shinpachi, i don't mean to bring up old and bad times but japan's invasion of china was one of the most brutal invasions in modern history. as we call it, "The rape of Nanking". it seems to me, forgive me if i am blunt here, that there must have been tremendous amounts of hatred built-up over all those years that suddenly had a release. i also suspect that japan's island status had a lot to do with the peace between japan and china.
mikewint
Captain
Shinpachi, there is no need for you to apologize for things done by your government any more than i am responsible for things done in vietnam by my government. humans are violent animals and our inhumanity to ourselves has no parallel in any other species. Westerners may have taught japan a new way to wage war but did not create enmity between japan and china.
tail end charlie
Senior Airman
- 615
- Aug 24, 2010
Shinpachi
It is impossible to condense a whole regions history into a few paragraphs. From the British side involvement in China centered on two things
1 Greed trying to make money out of India by selling Opium to China as well as legitimate trade.
2 Continuing the "great game" preventing Russian expansion. The fleet which defeated the Russians was mainly constructed in the UK. Japan was seen as a good ally to contain Russian expansion however after the defeat of Russia, Japan became a power in its own right and started to expand itself. China itself was hardly a country at all with rival regions and war lords some of whom had expansionist ideas in the north.
I read in one article that it was only the Japanese invasion that truely united, China initially there was no national response.
Things change with time, Britain had many wars with the Dutch but the German states were allies, when the German states united then the situation quickly reversed.
I do not know if hatred was the end all for China.I have been reading one the "The Rising Sun" and it goes deeply into the politics within the Japanese hierarchy with the military wanting control and China was a way to pacify the young troops in Japan for more or less National pride.There was one revolt were these young disenchanted troops killed many of the statesman of Japan and some of the Generals whom they disagreed with on China (late 20's early 30's).These young troops actually took over part of downtown Toyko for about 24hrs+ with barricades till a temporary agreement was resolved between them and the Hierarchy.
Now we have another push on Japan this time by Russia
Japanese officials have reacted angrily to a visit today by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to a group of disputed, mineral-rich islands seized by the Soviet Union at the end of World War II.
Russia, however, regards the island chain as a symbol of its victory during World War II, and sees no reason why it should give up possession of a legitimately acquired prize. That island dispute has prevented the two countries from ever signing a formal peace treaty in the 65 years since the end of World War II.
Russia Angers Japan With Visit to Disputed Islands
Now we have another push on Japan this time by Russia
Japanese officials have reacted angrily to a visit today by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to a group of disputed, mineral-rich islands seized by the Soviet Union at the end of World War II.
Russia, however, regards the island chain as a symbol of its victory during World War II, and sees no reason why it should give up possession of a legitimately acquired prize. That island dispute has prevented the two countries from ever signing a formal peace treaty in the 65 years since the end of World War II.
Russia Angers Japan With Visit to Disputed Islands
So N.Korea shells S.Korea with some 200 shells the most since 1953 and as I mentioned in the previous post to possibily satisfy the Military.
It also follows moves by leader Kim Jong-il to make his youngest, but unproven, son his heir apparent, leading some analysts to question whether the bombardment might in part have been an attempt to burnish the ruling family's image with the military.
The question is will S.Korea respond?will the world respond?I think quite not yet but another attack by the North will probably provide a response.You have the North in the last year sinking the Destroyer killing 46 and now this attack on the Base killing 2,remains to be seen.
It also follows moves by leader Kim Jong-il to make his youngest, but unproven, son his heir apparent, leading some analysts to question whether the bombardment might in part have been an attempt to burnish the ruling family's image with the military.
The question is will S.Korea respond?will the world respond?I think quite not yet but another attack by the North will probably provide a response.You have the North in the last year sinking the Destroyer killing 46 and now this attack on the Base killing 2,remains to be seen.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"When you got nuthin', you got nuthin' to lose"
(B Dylan)
(B Dylan)
Typical UN response: Even as the world struggles to find workable ways to constrain North Korea's expanding nuclear weapons program and unpredictable belligerence, United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is planning how to channel new streams of aid and development money to the dangerous regime
FoxNews.com - U.N. Secretary General Eyes New Aid for North Korea
Chamberlain in the making............
FoxNews.com - U.N. Secretary General Eyes New Aid for North Korea
Chamberlain in the making............
michaelmaltby
Colonel
I agree, Javlin, the situation is very serious. Behind the curtain is China. China could stop this nonsense and posturing in a second - if they had the notion. But they are afraid of being over-run by N. Korean refugees if the regime collapses. (S. Korea also shares that fear). But that little pimple should be nipped.
MM
MM
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Just a reminder we have a thread for the recent events in Korea and to be careful this doesn't develope into a political discussion.
It has been interesting learning some background history of the Asian countries.
It has been interesting learning some background history of the Asian countries.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
@Njaco: "... we have a thread for the recent events in Korea".
".... be careful this doesn't develope into a political discussion".
".... be careful this doesn't develope into a political discussion".
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
yeah, yeah dicotomy fer sure.
Never thought about it that way Chris(going political) it's titled "Shades of 1930" and how while sabres rattle in the ME we have unsettle issues from even WWII left in the Far East that are perkulating.We have economic unrest almost worldwide upon us just awaiting a push by someone when they think it works to there advantage.I feel as close to WW now as I did as child in the nuclear age;does that make sense?
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
No prob and I'm enjoying thread. I just saw how it might easily slip into politics and gave a shout out to try to keep on track. I've seen tooo many threads sart innocently enough about a topic only to suddenly blossim out of control. Nobody has done any harm - yet.
St. Petersburg, Russia - China and Russia have decided to renounce the US dollar and resort to using their own currencies for bilateral trade, Premier Wen Jiabao and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin announced late on Tuesday.
PThe two countries were accustomed to using other currencies, especially the dollar, for bilateral trade. Since the financial crisis, however, high-ranking officials on both sides began to explore other possibilities
ang Zhongying, who specializes in international politics at Renmin University of China, said the proposal is not challenging the dollar, but aimed at avoiding the risks the dollar represents.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-11/24/content_11599087.htm
The dollar reserve currency status allows the U.S. to run up high deficits and have its debt be denominated in the U.S. dollar, which in turn enables it to print unlimited dollars and inflate its way out of debt. America, understandably, wants to protect these privileges.
Russia is already the second biggest oil exporter and the biggest natural gas exporter in the world.
In other words, the growing importance of Russia and China in the global energy picture -- and their phasing out of dollar usage for trading energy commodities -- would marginalize the status of the dollar.
China-Russia currency agreement further threatens U.S. dollar - Gold Matters
While we sit on our reserves and continue towards a possible state of inflation worldwide.Alot of similiar factors to the 20s and 30s;alignment of powers never thought of 15 yrs ago I think at least.Both of these countries are pressing Japan both have been at war with Japan in the last hundred years.I don't know thinking out loud here shoot me down please!I am just a causual observer taking notice and looking at an unfinished puzzle.
PThe two countries were accustomed to using other currencies, especially the dollar, for bilateral trade. Since the financial crisis, however, high-ranking officials on both sides began to explore other possibilities
ang Zhongying, who specializes in international politics at Renmin University of China, said the proposal is not challenging the dollar, but aimed at avoiding the risks the dollar represents.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-11/24/content_11599087.htm
The dollar reserve currency status allows the U.S. to run up high deficits and have its debt be denominated in the U.S. dollar, which in turn enables it to print unlimited dollars and inflate its way out of debt. America, understandably, wants to protect these privileges.
Russia is already the second biggest oil exporter and the biggest natural gas exporter in the world.
In other words, the growing importance of Russia and China in the global energy picture -- and their phasing out of dollar usage for trading energy commodities -- would marginalize the status of the dollar.
China-Russia currency agreement further threatens U.S. dollar - Gold Matters
While we sit on our reserves and continue towards a possible state of inflation worldwide.Alot of similiar factors to the 20s and 30s;alignment of powers never thought of 15 yrs ago I think at least.Both of these countries are pressing Japan both have been at war with Japan in the last hundred years.I don't know thinking out loud here shoot me down please!I am just a causual observer taking notice and looking at an unfinished puzzle.
Don't worry about that one. They may trade back and forth in their own currencies but they will use the dollar as the price setting peg. More show than anything else.
If the dollar does lose #1 currency status, expect to see a serious drop in the standard of living in the US. About 20% would be accurate.
But that's not the currency we should be worrying about. The dollar has a long way to go before the world economic conditions destroy it. The US is a very stable place and that has a lot to do with people keeping the dollar as a peg. It just works well.
The problem currency out there is the Euro. The member states voted for a 750Billion Euro bailout package back in the spring, to make sure they could cover whatever happened to the banking system as things go south. Greece got 110, Ireland is getting 85, Portugal looks like another 100 billion. That's 300 billion of a 750 billion Euro package. Spain and Italy are probably going to tank as well and those two are looking at 1.1 to 1.2 trillion Euro combined.
The question is, how long will the states north of the Alps (primarily the Germans) put up with bailing out the states south of the Alps? Last time this happened, extremist groups rose. This time? Will the Euro survive? Will the EC survive?
The next couple of years are going to be hairy.
