Spitfire Crashes near RAF Coningsby

stona said:

Squadron Leader Mark Long. RIP.

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Thanks for sharing the name. Apparently, his day job was flying Typhoons at Coningsby.

It's very sad - Mark Long was scheduled to become OC of the BBMF next year.

The a/c was a war veteran having completed some 60 missions between April-June 1945, including operations on and after D- Day. Whatever happened to the a/c occurred very shortly after takeoff leaving the pilot with pretty much zero options.

Good luck to the family and RAF Coningsby.

We forget the risk involved.

Terrible to hear, a sad loss.

Blue skies and tail winds.

This has been the first fatal accident for the BBMF since it was founded in 1957…

Sdrn Ldr Mark Long left us far too early. But note that back in the 80's we lost the entire USAF Thunderbirds.

MIflyer said:

.... But note that back in the 80's we lost the entire USAF Thunderbirds.

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Not sure why we need a comparison. All such losses are tragic.

Airframes said:

Note that this particular Spitfire was part of the BBMF fleet, part of the Royal Air Force.
All aircraft of the BBMF are inspected, serviced and operated under extremely strict military procedures, just like their "modern day" cousins, and have rather tight operating limits.
These include restricted flying hours (per aircraft) per year, very strict servicing schedules, and limitations on aerial manouvres, and very closely followed limits regarding weather conditions to, from and at the display area.

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Indeed. I imagine there was no better maintained Spitfire in existence.

MIflyer said:

True, and it is even worse than that. Warbirds generally are not certified airplanes and often there is no Service Bulletin or Airworthiness Directive support. When Harrison Ford crashed his PT-22 they concluded that the carburetor essentially had fallen apart and there was nothing anyone could have done. So who knows those carbs can do that and ensures they are dismantled and examined or even overhauled at appropriate intervals? I have no doubt that Mr. Ford would gladly have paid to have that done, every year if required, but someone would have had to tell him to do that and know how to get it done. Even certified light aircraft have not only repair and overhaul standards but also updating programs.

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You really don't know what you are talking about. Warbirds are certified and are controlled, at least in the US, by FAA regulations. ADs are issued for Warbirds all the time. All have to follow an approved maintenance programs. The Warbirds are maintained and operated by dedicated people who know what they are doing. Yes, sometimes they make mistakes like everybody else. Your comments about Harrison Ford, who is a long time experienced aviator , are non-sense. As someone who is maintaining and operating Warbirds, believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

Sad. May he rest in peace.

Big Jake said:

You really don't know what you are talking about. Warbirds are certified and are controlled, at least in the US, by FAA regulations. ADs are issued for Warbirds all the time. All have to follow an approved maintenance programs. The Warbirds are maintained and operated by dedicated people who know what they are doing. Yes, sometimes they make mistakes like everybody else. Your comments about Harrison Ford, who is a long time experienced aviator , are non-sense. As someone who is maintaining and operating Warbirds, believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

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Each country has its own systems and the US has a good one but it is not perfect. Other countries have some rules that are better and some that are worse. Each justifies their own interpretation.

I am not current on ADs on any US warbird but the one issue the does worry me is the ageing aircraft program for warbirds as for air transport aircraft that comes from the manufacturer who has people who are highly knowledgeable about the specific model their team is responsible for. There is no such level of currency in any manufacturer for products produced by by themselves or their competitors that they subsumed anything up to 80 years ago. This means there is no one who knows what the fatigue life is on the various parts of the aircraft are, what areas are prone to corrosion, etc. The FAA has the excellent SDR programme that has saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives but too many people fail to submit reports. I just ran a search on the P-51 and this is the result.


The other problem is that some pilots only talk to their pilot mates about technical problems with their aircraft. When they ask a qualified Aircraft Maintenance Technician (AMT) about the problem they reject his advise because they are a pilot and know everything while the AMT is just a grease monkey.

Example from here in Aus. A MiG-15 owner had an over-temp on take off during an airshow and flames were seen coming out the tailpipe. Several AMT's told him change the engine or the fuel control unit. The cost of a replacement engine was about the same as two cylinders on a Continental or Lycoming engine so was relative peanuts. His mates told him the AMTs just want the work. He did not change the engine.

The same happened at least twice over the following weeks.

At another air show weeks later, still with the same engine, flames were again seen coming out the tailpipe and he declared that he had an engine fire warning. He was cleared to return but said he would fly the whole pattern (because he had a paying passenger). Needless to say he killed himself, his passenger and the aircraft.

I wrote the first CASA approved maintenance and MiG-15 preflight programme in Aus. It required the pilot or an authorised person to climb up the tailpipe and make sure that there was no indication of turbine blades rubbing on the surrounding structure - a sure indication that the engine had over-temped and blades stretched. If blades rub on the housing that raises the temperature of the housing to the point of failure and the fiery high temperature air entering the turbine will vent out the side like an oxyacetylene cutting torch. Immediately above the turbine, the most likely point of failure as the overheated ring sags onto the blade(s) and rubs "harder" are the two light alloy push pull rods that control the elevators and rudder. If they burn through then you have no control.

The maintenance programme that the dead pilot was using was a pirate version of my one that had deleted the tailpipe inspection and a number of other items that some pilots thought were unnecessary and fellow pilots in CASA approved the changes. I had more than one pilot tell me it was demeaning to do that inspection. Once they knew the reason they agreed it was essential.

Big Jake said:

You really don't know what you are talking about.

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Well, you seem to have an intense desire to find something to get angry about. I am sure I do not have your level of expertise but I did serve 25 years on active duty as an engineer with the USAF during which I acquired years of experience in aircraft maintenance, component failure analysis and mishap investigation. And I have owned and operated my own 1940's aircraft for 35 years and learned a great deal that way as well. And for a while I was a contractor for the FAA on failure analysis.

Old warbirds comprise a vanishingly small percentage of the aircraft operating today but their safety record is sad. And most are not exceeding the design limits of the airplane, such as the Leeward P-51 or are subject to terrible airmanship such as the P-63/B-17 collision or Taigh Ramey's B-25 mishap. Inadequate maintenance is a bigger part, as is illustrated by the Collins B-17 crash, the Valiant Air Command TBM crash, the P-47 crash illustrated below, or the P-40 crash caused by an apparent failure to tighten the oil drain plug.

As for Harrison Ford, I can only recommend an adult education course in reading comprehension, since I did not even imply it was his fault. However *Somebody* did an inadequate Annual Inspection of that PT-22, either due to their own personal failings or lack of information on the fact that a Kinner carburetor can spontaneously dismantle itself.

Gentlemen i do not think this thread is not the place to bud heads about this subject.

This is about a very sad accident that cost a life.
Start a new thread where you guys can exchanche views on the topic.
Anywhere but here.


Perhaps the mods can clean it up. I think it doesn't belong in this one.

Aside from anything else, I'm pretty sure that the BoB flight, being an RAF unit, has regular, documented, and quality maintenance.