Stealth Questions

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plan_D said:
The anti-icing on the F-22 is bleed air from the engines piped to the leading edges of the wings, like most aircraft today.
Click to expand...


Ahhhh...
Is it on all the time then? Are there any heat signature concerns?

.
 
The system is on all the time, yes. It's simply air piped from the compressor (at any stage - probably with options for different stages) and cooled with bypass air in a turbofan engine, or ram-air in a turbojet, in a pre-cooler to bring it down to around 160 - 190 degrees - from the compressor it can be as high as 300 degrees when initially tapped. The air is then simply piped to the wings then dumped overboard. It's a very effective anti-icing system, but the draw-back is that it's drawing energy [power] from the engine.

The exact same system is used for airliner air conditioning except the air is cooled even further using an air cycle machine that compresses the air (which heats it up), then cools the compressed air, then expands the air over a turbine which brings the temperature right down to about 0 - 2 degrees (the air cycle is the principal of cooling through expansion) and then it's heated and filtered before being piped into the cabin.

The heat signature of air dumped over-board would be no more of a concern than that of the engine exhaust gas.
 
plan_D said:
The system is on all the time, yes. It's simply air piped from the compressor (at any stage - probably with options for different stages) and cooled with bypass air in a turbofan engine, or ram-air in a turbojet, in a pre-cooler to bring it down to around 160 - 190 degrees - from the compressor it can be as high as 300 degrees when initially tapped. The air is then simply piped to the wings then dumped overboard. It's a very effective anti-icing system, but the draw-back is that it's drawing energy [power] from the engine.

The exact same system is used for airliner air conditioning except the air is cooled even further using an air cycle machine that compresses the air (which heats it up), then cools the compressed air, then expands the air over a turbine which brings the temperature right down to about 0 - 2 degrees (the air cycle is the principal of cooling through expansion) and then it's heated and filtered before being piped into the cabin.

The heat signature of air dumped over-board would be no more of a concern than that of the engine exhaust gas.
Click to expand...
Damn D - you must learing something there! :lol:

Also the hot air will more than likely go through a diffuser similar to the "Platypus" exhaust on the F-117.
 
Thats a lot of engineering when you keep in mind composite materials, and keeping the wing thin.
.
 
T4.H said:
On such a way the F117 was shot down over yugoslavia.
One radar system sends the signals, several systems got back the reflected radar signals from the F117.
By phone they collected the informations from the several radar stations and guided a Mig21 to the target, which at least shot down the F117. Three attacks, two less or more not sucsessful with rockets (which only damaged the F117), at least the Mig shot down the F117 with there guns.

It's said, that the german airfoce can also connect there radar systems on such a way (Patriot). But of couse, they don't use phones...:lol:
Click to expand...

I saw the story on TV (German), perhaps two years ago...

The sources...or just only one of it.
Wie der Stealth-Fighter über Jugoslawien abgeschossen wurde
KugelErde.de | KMZ-Datenbank | F117, New Mexiko
Air Aces Homepage

I'm not sure what the truth is.
 
The F-117 was shot down by ground fire.

No NATO aircraft were shot down by enemy aircraft during the whole campaign. All were lost due to accidents or ground fire.

Here is a list of all aircraft destroyed during the NATO Air Campaign over Yugoslavia.

March 24, 1999: Yugoslav MiG-29 pilot Nejbojsa Nikolić and nother Mig-29 were shot down by USAF F-15s piloted by Captain Mike Shower and by Lieutenant Colonel Cesar Rodriguez.

March 25, 1999: Yugoslav J-22 Orao piloted by Lt. Colonel Zivota Ðurić was shot down by NATO aircraft.

March 26, 1999: Yugoslav MiG-29 piloted by Zoran Radosavljević was shot down by a Royal Netherlands Air Force F-16.

On the same day 2 more Mig-29s, one piloted by Lt. Colonel Slobodan Perić were shot down by USAF F-15s piloted by Captain Jeff Hwang.

March 27, 1999: USAF F-117 was shot down by SA-3 Goa missile fired by 3rd Battalion of the 250th Missile Brigade under the command of Colonel Zoltán Dani. Pilot ejected safely and was rescued.

May 2, 1999: USAF F-16 crashed due to engine failure near Sabac.
 
Definitely propaganda; the one "clue" that gave it away to me was the fact that they said: "The bombardier's formation, accompanied by the fighter planes . . . .". The B-2 is never accompanied by fighter planes, especially over enemy territory; this would compromise it's stealthiness, as the only fighter as stealthy as a B-2 is an F-22, and F-22's certainly were not operational in 1999.
 
The source of the pictures:
jogoslawien 99

Hi Flyboy and everyone else...
Come on...
Just don't believe both sides...
The first, which dies in a war is the truth.
And each war starts with a lie.

I would bet...
If the serbs couldn't proof it, the NATO officials would have said, that all plains would have lost in accidants or because of engine failure. How they also had first said to the shot down F-117 and ... and... etc...

One Harrier ended in the adriatic sea...

This should be a Sea Harrier...
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1930.jpg
This could be everything...

Two AH64 were lost in Albania (crews died). (another crashed, crew survived?)
Officialy all three (four) were lost in training flights. Perhaps...
http://www.bmlv.gv.at/pdf_pool/publikationen/05_kk_06_feichtinger.pdf
There are rumors, one of the AH64 has been shot down. I don't belive it...

One F-117 has been shot down.
OK, I saw the pictures, these were shrapnel holes not 23 mm granate holes. No Mig21?
Rocket!...
http://www.peters-ada.de/eintrittsloch.jpg

One another F-117 was badly damaged, get home but was a total loss.
http://www.pogo.org/m/dp/dp-fa22-Riccioni-03082005.pdf

One A-10 get back heavily damaged.
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo194.gif
From where did they have the typeshild of a A10? From this one?
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo211.jpg


On 25. March a F15 has to make a emergancy landing in Sarajevo? Big white smoke? Again only a engine failure? Or has it been hit?
What is this?
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1916.gif
A F15 getting rid of fuel?




Are you sure, that the F-16 hasn't shot down? Engine failure?
Air Defense: How to Take Down an F-117
IntelliBriefs: Secrets of 1999 F-117 Shootdown Revealed
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1912.jpg

Colonel Dani Zoltan said he shot down the F-117 and the F-16!
USATODAY.com - Serb discusses 1999 downing of stealth
Unconventional Weapon

Several UAV's get lost. Germany lost 6, USA 14.
France One?
vtd.zept
There is a picture of a shot down french one...I just found it...
Forums: Military Aviation: How to trick Nato (1999 Kosovo)
Seems to be undamaged...and some cool pictures of fake serb tanks and Mig 29:oops:

There are also pictures of several lost german and lost american ones.
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1931.jpg
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo193.jpg
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1924.jpg (Hunter)

Also several cruise missle should be shot down...
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1928.jpg



The source of the pictures:
jogoslawien 99
 
T4.H said:
Come on...

Just don't believe both sides...
The first, which dies in a war is the truth.
And each war starts with a lie.

I would bet...
If the serbs couldn't proof it, the NATO officials would have said, that all plains would have lost in accidants or because of engine failure. How they also had first said to the shot down F-117 and ... and... etc...

One Harrier ended in the adriatic sea...

This should be a Sea Harrier...
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1930.jpg
This could be everything...

Two AH64 were lost in Albania (crews died). (another crashed, crew survived?)
Officialy all three (four) were lost in training flights. Perhaps...
http://www.bmlv.gv.at/pdf_pool/publikationen/05_kk_06_feichtinger.pdf
There are rumors, one of the AH64 has been shot down. I don't belive it...

One F-117 has been shot down.
OK, I saw the pictures, these were shrapnel holes not 23 mm granate holes. No Mig21?
Rocket!...
http://www.peters-ada.de/eintrittsloch.jpg

One another F-117 was badly damaged, get home but was a total loss.
http://www.pogo.org/m/dp/dp-fa22-Riccioni-03082005.pdf

One A-10 get back heavily damaged.
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo194.gif
From where did they have the typeshild of a A10? From this one?
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo211.jpg


On 25. March a F15 has to make a emergancy landing in Sarajevo? Big white smoke? Again only a engine failure? Or has it been hit?
What is this?
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1916.gif
A F15 getting rid of fuel?




Are you sure, that the F-16 hasn't shot down? Engine failure?
Air Defense: How to Take Down an F-117
IntelliBriefs: Secrets of 1999 F-117 Shootdown Revealed
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1912.jpg

Colonel Dani Zoltan said he shot down the F-117 and the F-16!
USATODAY.com - Serb discusses 1999 downing of stealth
Unconventional Weapon

Several UAV's get lost. Germany lost 6, USA 14.
France One?
vtd.zept
There is a picture of a shot down french one...I just found it...
Forums: Military Aviation: How to trick Nato (1999 Kosovo)
Seems to be undamaged...and some cool pictures of fake serb tanks and Mig 29:oops:

There are also pictures of several lost german and lost american ones.
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1931.jpg
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo193.jpg
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1924.jpg (Hunter)

Also several cruise missle should be shot down...
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo1928.jpg



The source of the pictures:
jogoslawien 99
Click to expand...

No one is NOT denying that aircraft were not damaged or shot down over Yugoslavia and again no one is denying that a F-117A was shot down as well. What is being totally ridiculed here was the claim that a MiG-21 did the damage and the biggest and laughable claim that a B-2 was shot down as well. The same Yugoslav sources were saying that NATO forces were purposely targeting hospitals and civilian targets. The same people who did a little ole fashioned genocide in their own back yard. More BS propaganda.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see this and it's not a matter of accepting the "party line" from the west.
 
Yes I think you are right.
The F-117 has been shot down by a rocket.
The same with the F16.

Propaganda on both sides I would say.
And lies on both sides.

Do you remember the direct bomb hit on the train? When they tried to destroy a railway bridge? Nice bomb camera view.
First the NATO officials showed a film with a small angle. The train appeared just in the last second...no chance to stop the bomb.
Later on they had to show the real unmodified film. They could see the train for whole flight time of the bomb...
This is propaganda..Or you can call it a lie.
One of many cases on both sides...

Flyboy wrote:
BTW - that's a generic data plate - you could purchase those just about anywhere...
Yes of course, you are right!
It is said, they have had some more parts, no source, no pictures found.
In this case I just wanted to ask, if this could be a part of the destroyed jet engine of the A10!
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo194.gif



"The first, which dies in a war is the truth."

Hey what do you think of the wooden Mig-29!
cool isn't it?
Forums: Military Aviation: How to trick Nato (1999 Kosovo)
I like them.:lol:
 
More BS uncovered...

One A-10 get back heavily damaged.
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo194.gif
From where did they have the typeshild of a A10? From this one?
http://www.peters-ada.de/yogo211.jpg
Click to expand...

If you go to the photo of the A-10 its from the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing, formed in 2003 - it wasn't even around in 1999. Here's the link...
332nd Air Expeditionary Wing

His photo was probably taken from this article - look at the photos!

Story about Battle Damaged A-10

Note the tail codex's.

I'm sorry but I find it hard believing anything out of Yugoslavia with regards to NATO losses during that period.
 
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