Stumped: Rear gunners seats- how do they work?

[Johnny .45]

Here's something I've long wondered, but never had in my mind at a moment I was on a computer. In aircraft with rear-gunners positions, such as the Ju 87, the SBD, the D3A, D4Y, etc, the gunner had to be able to face rearwards to man the gun, but in many cases he was also responsible for running the radio equipment, located ahead of him. You often see photos of them riding facing forwards. Question is, what was a "typical" design of seat that allowed the gunner to reverse like this? A pivoting seat works in the P-61, but it seems large and heavy for a single engine plane. Also, in most pictures, the rear seats appear to be canvas seat bottoms and backs slung between alloy frames, not rear "seats" at all. In the confines of a single engine aircraft rear cockpit, it seems like the contortions required to change from front to rear-facing would be difficult. I just can't figure it out. I recall looking at pictures of a Ki-45 rear cockpit, and thinking it almost looked as though there was a pivot on the "angle", so the back became the bottom and vice-versa, but that still wouldn't make it any easier to get your legs around at the same time, unless there was room beside the seat to swing your legs around. Doesn't seem as if most of these planes were wide enough to allow that, and I've never seen a picture that showed anything like that.
Best I can figure is that the seat back was only used when facing forwards, and the gunner was expected to detach it, lift his legs up and over the bench and swing around, and fire the gun sitting on a backless bench. Seems difficult, especially while wearing a parachute and oxygen mask.

 

[Aozora]

Here's something I've long wondered, but never had in my mind at a moment I was on a computer. In aircraft with rear-gunners positions, such as the Ju 87, the SBD, the D3A, D4Y, etc, the gunner had to be able to face rearwards to man the gun, but in many cases he was also responsible for running the radio equipment, located ahead of him. You often see photos of them riding facing forwards. Question is, what was a "typical" design of seat that allowed the gunner to reverse like this? A pivoting seat works in the P-61, but it seems large and heavy for a single engine plane. Also, in most pictures, the rear seats appear to be canvas seat bottoms and backs slung between alloy frames, not rear "seats" at all. In the confines of a single engine aircraft rear cockpit, it seems like the contortions required to change from front to rear-facing would be difficult. I just can't figure it out. I recall looking at pictures of a Ki-45 rear cockpit, and thinking it almost looked as though there was a pivot on the "angle", so the back became the bottom and vice-versa, but that still wouldn't make it any easier to get your legs around at the same time, unless there was room beside the seat to swing your legs around. Doesn't seem as if most of these planes were wide enough to allow that, and I've never seen a picture that showed anything like that.
Best I can figure is that the seat back was only used when facing forwards, and the gunner was expected to detach it, lift his legs up and over the bench and swing around, and fire the gun sitting on a backless bench. Seems difficult, especially while wearing a parachute and oxygen mask.

One of the best sources of information on Japanese aircraft interiors can be found in Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1940-1945 by Robert C Mikesh (Monogram Aviation Publications 2000). This book shows that most rear seats eg; the seats on the Ki-45, D3A, D4Y etc were on a swivel mount which enabled the observer/navigator/gunner to face forwards or backwards, depending on his role. In some types, such as the Ki 46 and Ki-51, the B5N and B6N, the seat back folded down so the observer, normally facing forward, could operate the rear gun and the seat back would act as a footrest.

 

[Johnny .45]

I would love to get my hands on a copy of that book! I'm all about learning this esoteric stuff no one else cares about, and Japanese aircraft are my current interest. I've been lusting after the Maru Mechanic books for a while now too. So I guess there was no real "typical" way they did it then. I'd love to hear how they worked it in other Axis and Allied aircraft now.

 

[vikingBerserker]

The Martin B-10's rear seat did not have a back rest so they could face either way. IIRC the Potez 631 was the same way (though that one might have swiveled).

 

[Barrett]

When we restored our A-24B as an SBD-5 we had to manufacture the gunner's seat from a pattern, retrieved from a remote crash site. The seat was fully functional: rotated 360 deg. and was adjustable for angle of recline though it was not progressive. There was a series of notches to keep the recline consistent. Gunner also had foot rests though at high reclining angles you couldn't usually reach the rests.

The gun stowage aft of the rear cockpit had two spring-loaded doors. Step on a pedal to open the doors, grasp the .30 cal handle(s), pull up and back (actually toward the nose) and the mount locked into place. Cycle the charging handle twice (a Browning feature) and you should be hot.

SBD gunners had basic flight controls with the stick clipped to the port side, I believe. No wheels or flaps activation, tho.

 

[Koopernic]

Deleted

 

[Crimea_River]

The seat in a Ar196 traveled on a track and the back rest was detachable. No doubt there were contortions needed.

 

[Tinku]

In the Bf110 the rotating seat, which had a low cut backrest, was mounted on a pedestal slightly left off center.

Even though it was a cramped space, the gunner could thus rotate to face fore or aft, as needed. Short legs probably helped.

I have however also seen pictures of another type of seet. Metal tubing frame with cloth mesh. That one has no backrest and does not seem to rotate, so I am wondering if the rear gunner just had to hoist his legs up and around everytime he wanted to face the opposite direction.

Just google "Messerschmit Bf 110 rear gunner seat".

http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/Content/1942/Me110_Av_G_4205_sk_seat_p145_W.png

 

[Airframes]

The longer, webbing 'bench' seat in the Bf110 was used on the night fighter versions, which had a three man crew - gunner facing aft, radar op facing forward.