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Now, if Germany had fielded a 2000 lb thrust centrifugal jet engine in late '43 and put it in this plane (it would probably fit), then that would have been a game changer and I think they could have done it with different priorities. (an old soapbox of mine).
But they didn't do that did they?
How many post war jet engines are direct descendants of the various German projects, compared with, say, rocket motors?
A couple of important ones.
The french ATAR series, dominating the french 50´s and 60´s is the continuation of the BMW P3306, which was a scaled up BMW-003 and qualifies here.
The soviets copied BMW-003 and JUMO-004, and additionally realised the projected JUMO-012 turbojet and later the from it derived turboprop JUMO-022 (the JUMO-012B was not taken into production because of the licensed production of the RR Nene, which offered equal performance at less weight -albeit on a larger frontal diameter). The Jumo-022 went into service and production as TV-2 and was one mainstay in helicopter turbines of the soviet aeroindustry. It eventually wes redesigned into the much more powerful NK-12 turboprop, which powers the Tu-95 till today.
I don't see the He162 having much of an endurance difference than late war Bf109s with the scenarios given.
Which was a problem. Germany needed as many aircraft in the air as it could get. Planes refueling and rearming are not fighting. Ground time to flight time is a critical design point for aircraft. Low endurance aircraft have a poorer ground time to flight time ratio than aircraft with more endurance. I think the Germans finally got the idea with the Ta 152 which had much more fuel on board. This is particularly true when the airspace above the airfield is contested. Aircraft landing and taking off are extremely vulnerable and the more you have to do it the more vulnerable you are, especially the jets with notoriously slow acceleration.
Dave,
I kind of agree in most points. We may have differences in valuing endurance but those are small enough to vannish in the usual margin of error.
However, I don´t think that a 2000lbs thrust centrifugal jet engine was feasable for Germany in 1943 (Heinkel tried and failed) due in most part because of the abandandonment of high Chromium and high Nickel content turbine wheels.
Otherwise You already had the axial JUMO-004A which run 1942 on 1000kp / 2,200lbs at 9000rpm -but had to be reconstructed and consequently derated to 8700rpm in the Jumo-004B due to the need to produce the engine without high quality alloys. This problem would be worse in a radial compressor (neither the HeS008 nor the HeS011 AV had been designed for spare free).
Production of the JUMO004 to apr. 3rd, 45 amounted to 7,420 units, BMW´s 003 was introduced in serial production in august 1944 and had been produced in ~700 units to apr. 45, roughly twice as much as He-162 and Ar-234C airframes in this period.
I am pretty sure that a targeted goal of >4,000 He-162 was to optimistic but probably not to excessively, considering that oct. 1944 production of fighter craft peaked out at 3,468 fighters, which were individually significantly more costly in ressources and manhours than was the He-162A (by a considerable margin).
am curious this page has nothing to do with the named title Ta vs Tempest, wonder why posts start running amuck since the beginning of this site was created. ??
Because debates develop, sometimes in unexpected and interesting ways. It's human nature. It would be a shame if that was seen as a problem when everybody has behaved themselves and posted some fascinating information.
All of these planes would be obsolete by the end of 1945 with only the F4U and F8F scheduled for updates due to the uncertainty of carrier borne jets.
Though the Tempest is a direct ancestor of the Sea Fury, developed for the RN for the same reason. The Sea Fury is a very different beast to the Tempest under the skin, but the lineage is there.
Cheers
Steve