Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Bullockracing said:The heavy equipment available in the forties and the materials used could not support that type of RRR. You could patch a dirt field maybe, but not an actual runway.
wmaxt said:Looking at things from another angle. Say a tactical strike hit a rail yard, it might be partly operational again in six hours. Which is reasonable in most cases but may only be one track. If that delay (not to mention a slower speed and a bottle neck at that point) kept reinforcements, supplies and or equipment from getting to the front or to a beach head, it could be the deciding factor in a battle, invasion or campain.
During the invasion of Normandy the delay from lack of rail transport and downed bridges, both taken out with Tac air, delayed the full German response as much as 48 hours (over and above Hitlers contabution). The German response was also piecemeal because the temporary repairs were limited in there capacity to move people or equipment. It was enough to assure the success of the landings.
Another thing tac-air does is that each time it knocks out a rail yard, bridge etc it delays materials which stops factories and interupts the operations all up and down the line. It also ties up material and manpower - the guy thats laying rail is not shooting at you! He's also not building fighters. tanks, bombs or shells.
I haven't even mentioned tac-air in relation to troops in contact with a larger force or trapped. Finally there is a record of a P-47 group that captured a German division by harassing them until they surrendered!
Tac-air has a profound effect on the outcome of any war that has aircraft in it.
syscom3 said:And nine bombs on the runways? big deal. Fill them in without effort, or if it was a grass field, just plant a few flags for the pilots to know where they are and advoid them.
1. Tac-air destroyed almost all the rail heads and bridges in Normandy.
2. Large bomber formations were regretted in almost every task they had in conjunction with the D-Day landings. There are reports of large formations of bombers in WWII in which only 3 bombs actually hit the target! Thats why the went back so often to a previously hit target.
3. The lack of rail traffic at the front was directly due to tac-air and its affects up stream to both trains and to the rail infrastructure.
4 No I don't have further documentation I saw it on a documentry complete with photos of the actual surrender.
5 the A-20 slipped away because it was replaced by better bombers Mossies, B-25 and B-26 bombers. BTW the B-26s were still being used for tac-air in 1966.
6. The immediate dissruption may be minor the effects are not.
7. Plenty of manpower? is that why new German pilots had 10hrs when they went into combat? Is that why 15 and 70 year olds were being drafted?
Just a side note: I have had direct experiance with track work and railroad capabilities and scheduling. I've also had direct experiance with manufacturing facilities and processes, even a few minutes delay can have very large effects on production lines.
syscom3 said:Ummm, lets see, telephone service is repaired quickly as its only a simpleton type setup, radio gear is still working, ops can work in buildings still standing (or are there only seven buildings total)? Or, they can work out of tents. Heck, set everything up in the back of a truck and youre back in business.
Hanger Destroyed? Oh well, guess the mechanics will have to work on the planes in the open like they did most of the time. And with all the damged buildings around, they can easily find some timber to hang their tarps on. (by the way, since in the PTO, rare was the airfield that had a hangar. So did that mean the planes couldnt be kept operating? Didnt Guadalcanal have a tiny shack that operated as an ops and an HQ?
I fail to see how the loss of the buildings is going to impact the operations to any degree.
Yea right, and thats why they sent the majority of their ground personnel to the front and replaced the black men with WOMEN.....syscom said:The Germans never were short of manpower to do the repair work.
lesofprimus said:Yea right, and thats why they sent the majority of their ground personnel to the front and replaced the black men with WOMEN.....
Glider said:During the BOB one of the command centers was destroyed (by a small German raid) and like syscom said they were able to move to temporary buildings, rig up new telephone lines, install new radio's and recommence operations.
The bit he would probably forget to remember, is the bit where they could only direct one squadron instead of an entire wing. This was (and I bet its no suprise) because temporary lash ups no matter how good, are never as good as the purpose built buildings.
Syscom, I don't suppose there is an outside chance that you can supply some evidence to either
a) Support your contentions that small raids did no damage
b) That my evidence and many others are wrong.
Go on give some examples.
Quote from the RAF Biggin Hill Site to support above
The size of the raid
a small formation of less than a dozen bombers at low level reduced Biggin Hill to a shambles with 1,000 lb. bombs. Workshops, stores, barracks, W.A.A.F. quarters and a hangar were wrecked.
Again, on September lst there were two attacks, the second of which by Dornier Do 17s, hit runways and the Sector Operations Room.
Impact on operations
For one week however the damage was so severe that only one squadron could operate from it.
Dude, u know as well as I do what that means, so dont skirt the point made...black men? The Germans had large numbers of blacks?
syscom3 said:Now see if that raid in 1943 or 1944 would accomplish the same thing.
A couple years of bombing taught everyone what needed to have ready spares available, and what needed to be fixed quickly to get things back operating.
plan_D said:Well, syscom, you've been proven wrong on another point. You claim that repairing runways was easy, and could be done within hours. Well, we have to thank Bullockracing for soundly proving you wrong there.
plan_D said:I'm still waiting, albeit passively, for his sources that provide him with the information so he can "agree" with my aircraft numbers for US Ninth Air Force raids in 1943.
Syscom:
"Now tell me what small raids changed the course of the war or battle? Not the fighter bomber ones, but the medium bomber missions."
Ever heard about the 'Dinner' Raid? It happened on the 10th June, 1944. It used 42 Typhoons and 71 Mitchells (113 bombers and fighter-bombers) with 33 Spitfires in escort.
Research it, syscom, and tell us all what happened on the 'Dinner' Raid. You do some research for once. And don't try and lie, because I've got the whole story right here.