The Battling Bastards of Bataan

[parsifal]

Hi all

Mac had a few hiccups with the Australians in the latter part of 1942. He is still liked and admired, but his casitgation of the Australians at the final parts of the Kokoda Campaign in the Buna-Gona-Sananada area was pretty disgraceful Green American units sent to fight, essesentially to show the aussies how its done basically fell apart. There was never going to be any other result.The American units were short on experience and training (and I suspect equipment), and were apparently going to show up veterans who had jungle warfare experience, and more than two years general combat experience before that. Macs comments, which were known by the Australians fighting hard at the front, were not appreciated, i can tell you.

Later however, in the Northern NG campaign, Mac did get his act together. He was a sound military commander, and possessed a charismatic persona. The Aussies eventually grew to be very attached to this American general, after a somewhat rocky start.

 

[renrich]

When looking at his record overall, WW1, superintendent of West Point, WW2, Japan occupation, Korea, he would have to be high on my list of the greatest men of the 20th century. I wonder what would have been the result if he had been supreme commander in the ETO?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

As stated - he learned quickly. The only thing he couldn't figure out was how to fight a "political" police action war where your mandate was NOT to soundly defeat your enemy by all means possible.

 

[syscom3]

As stated - he learned quickly. The only thing he couldn't figure out was how to fight a "political" police action war where your mandate was NOT to soundly defeat your enemy by all means possible.

He forgot a fundamental truism in the US Military .... The president is your commander.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

He forgot a fundamental truism in the US Military .... The president is your commander.

That is true - at the same time that president (and a few others) forgot that you don't commit troops to fight a war and then prevent them from winning it.....

 

[syscom3]

That is true - at the same time that president (and a few others) forgot that you don't commit troops to fight a war and then prevent them from winning it.....

But the chain of command trumps all else.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

But the chain of command trumps all else.

It does - especially if it's the politically correct thing to do.....

 

[renrich]

To me, an interesting thing about Mac was how politically astute he appeared to be when he ruled Japan and yet he misread the tea leaves when it came to his relationship with Truman. Or maybe he did not but his ego would not let him yield his position. It was rather tragic that a career such as his ended when he was surprised by the ChiComs and then fired by the President. His farewell speech at West Point is one of the best I have ever read, right up there with Churchill.

 

[parsifal]

Richard

i dont think he had a chance with truman. I like truman as a president, but I have read that Mac was touted as a republican contender. Once that was out of the bag....truman was going to get him no matter what he did.

Mind you, he did make it rather easy for the knives to be sunk in. You dont disobey the supreme commander, risk WWIII and get away with it.

He just came from a different age I guess, kinda like John Wayne movies,

 

[FLYBOYJ]

All true folks - remember Truman's administrations after WW2 weren't all rosy - he almost lost the 48 election and got chastised over the state of the US military at the start of the Korean War. There were also numerous corruption charges directed at people working for him and the US economy wasn't that rosy either. I think all this plus the situation with Mac assured a Republican administration for the next 8 years and Eisenhower was the perfect man at the perfect time.....

 

[syscom3]

Truman did very well after the end of WW2.

The public was in no mood to keep a large military. The economic slowdown was a natural reaction to the return of millions of veterans and the conversion of the manufacturing base from military to commercial.

Dont forget he wasnt a push over from the commies. He responded appropriately in Europe with the Marshall Plan, Berlin blockade and the commie trouble making in Greece.

 

[renrich]

Yep, when I was much younger and had all the answers I disliked Truman a great deal. Now, I look back and realise he stepped up and made some tough calls the right way. He wasn't perfect, (who is?) but his leadership re the atom bomb, Marshall Plan, Berlin Airlift, Korea was pretty good. Funny, how Bush may have the potential to remind one of Truman sometime in the future. As was mentioned Truman was highly partisan and Mac's dalliance with the Republican party pretty much earned Truman's enmity forever.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Truman did very well after the end of WW2.

He was not liked by the American public - his 1948 election squeaker was proof of that.

 

[syscom3]

He was not liked by the American public - his 1948 election squeaker was proof of that.

As the years and decades went by, he looked a lot better.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

As the years and decades went by, he looked a lot better.

History painted him better because of his decisiveness to use the atomic bomb and his anti-communist stance. His administration was riddled with corruption and controversy. Although he was considered be many the last great democrat president, I think the end result gave 8 years of a republican White House.

Scandals and controversies
In 1950, the Senate, led by Estes Kefauver, investigated numerous charges of corruption among senior administration officials, some of whom received fur coats and deep freezers for favors. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) was involved. In 1950, 166 IRS employees either resigned or were fired,[121] and many were facing indictments from the Department of Justice on a variety of tax-fixing and bribery charges, including the assistant attorney general in charge of the Tax Division. When Attorney General Howard McGrath fired the special prosecutor for being too zealous, Truman fired McGrath.[122] Historians agree that Truman himself was innocent and unaware—with one exception. In 1945, Mrs. Truman received a new, expensive, hard-to-get deep freezer. The businessman who provided the gift was the president of a perfume company and, thanks to Truman's aide and confidante General Harry Vaughan, received priority to fly to Europe days after the war ended, where he bought new perfumes. On the way back he "bumped" a wounded veteran from a flight that would have taken him back to the US. Disclosure of the episode in 1949 humiliated Truman. The president responded by vigorously defending Vaughan, an old friend with an office in the White House itself. Vaughan was eventually connected to multiple influence-peddling scandals.[123]
Charges that Soviet agents had infiltrated the government bedeviled the Truman administration and became a major campaign issue for Eisenhower in 1952.[124] In 1947, Truman set up loyalty boards to investigate espionage among federal employees.[125] Between 1947 and 1952, "about 20,000 government employees were investigated, some 2500 resigned 'voluntarily,' and 400 were fired."[126] He did, however, strongly oppose mandatory loyalty oaths for governmental employees, a stance that led to charges that his administration was soft on communism.[127]

In 1953, Senator Joseph McCarthy and Attorney General Herbert Brownell, Jr. claimed that Truman had known Harry Dexter White was a Soviet spy when Truman appointed him to the International Monetary Fund.[128] [129]. Truman described the civil rights Selma marches as silly. He stated that the marches would not "accomplish a darned thing".[130]

Harry S. Truman

 

[syscom3]

After 20 years of democratic domination in politics, it was inevitable the GOP would win one.

Ike ended up following many of Trumans policies regarding the Soviets and communism.

Probably the single best thing to happen to Ike was the massive expansion of the consumer economy in the 50's.

 

[ccheese]

MacArthur was also a very vindictive person. He personally ordered General
Homma returned to the Phillipines to stand trial for war crimes rather than
let him be tried by the War Crimes Commission. He also ordered Gen. Homma
shot by firing squad rather than hang the man, thus preserving Homma's
honor.

Charles

 

[syscom3]

I like what Gen Kreuger (8th Army) had to say about Doug .... "I'd rather jump into a sack of rattlesnakes than to get on his bad side".

 

[Robersabel]

Today, veterans of Bataan are nearly forgotten or being denied full recognition by the U.S. Army violating the U.S. Constutution.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

How are they being denied recognition by the Army?