FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
On the 17, knock off about 1000kg. Loaded 5,324kg, fully loaded 6,286 kg.
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Just to be fair the actual combat weight of the Lightning was around 15,000 to 15,500 kg, so the wing loading was only 351 kg/m^2.
So for comparison..
Lightning:
Wingloading = 351 kg/m^2
T/W ratio = 0.96
MIG-17:
Wingloading = 237 kg/m^2
T/W ratio = 0.63
On the 17, knock off about 1000kg. Loaded 5,324kg, fully loaded 6,286 kg.
I did, the wing loading is 237 kg/m^2 and the T/W ratio is 0.63 at 5370 kg weight.
I could agree with the first two to a point - I don't think the third item will come into play because things are going to happen so quickly you probably won't have time to think about that and if he's already on you're tail, you're dead.I wouldn't be scared of a turnfight with a MIG-17 if I was in a Lightning, and for three reasons primarily:
1. I know I can power through the tightest of turns
2. If it turns out that the MIG-17 can turn slightly better than me in a plain horizontal turnfight, well then I simply point my nose up abit and force the fight into a climbing turnfight.
3. I know that if he even as much as starts to gain an advantage on me in a turnfight I can either simply point my a/c directly up into the sun and climb away effortlessly or level out and speed out of there in no time.
The F.6 was introduced in the late 60s if we put this in a Vietnam perspective. I think the MiG-17 might hold its own against the earlier heavier Lightning in a turning contest.But I am quite convinced that because of the Lightnings huge advantage in T/W ratio it will outturn the MIG-17 at any speed. Esp. the later Lightning F.6 should be able to outturn the MIG.
Wouldnt it be better for the Lightning to exploit its missile fitout, to which the Mig has no answer at all ???? How efficient were the Red Top missiles carried by the Lightning???
I wonder if the 86 belongs here as it was introduced operationally in 1949?
In my opinion the Mig-21F-13 was a quit good 50's fighter. Fast agile good climb cannon and rocket armed. Less radar, but with radar range finder coupled to gyro gun sight. Pilots how flow it called it "sports car". Even ten years later in Vietnam a challenging dogfighter…..
And with only 20+ of them in the inventory, they sure as h*ll couldn't afford to lose them....
Lightning:
Wing loading = 328 kg/m^2
T/W ratio = 1.02
Delta Dart:
Wing loading = 254.7 kg/m^2
T/W ratio = 0.70
My father in law ran the last operational F-106 squadron in the USAF. These were the chase planes used on the B-1B program. He said he also had a chance to fly dissimilar air combat simulations against F-15s, and depending on the pilot and scenario, sometimes the -106 would come out on top.I knew a B-58 pilot who, if I remember correctly, stated that the only aircraft he encountered that could run an intercept on the B-58 was the F-106.