The Germans won WWII........

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

....competition to field the best fighter aircraft. At least thats the opinion among you guys.

That the Germans won the title of best aircraft in both World Wars, gives just an example why german products are so trusted even today.

The German Fokker D.VII is considered the best fighter of WWI.

The German Focke-Wulf FW 109D and the far less widely used Focke-Wulf Ta 152 are considered the best fighters of WWII.

And these are just the Prop-driven aircraft! Still, I think most WWII aviation fans would list the Messerschmitt Me 262 as superior to the Gloster Meteor.

The lucky buggers! Even though they lost both wars.

 

[Soren]

Quantity has a quality of its own.

 

[R988]

They may have been the best, but not by a great enough margin to counteract the quantity of the allies.

A quality aircraft design doesn't count for much if it's flown by someone inexperienced, doesn't have enough fuel to run, has trouble taking off without being destroyed on the ground and is made by slaves trying to sabotage them. Add to that the allied aircraft that were right up there in quality with, by wars end, much better trained pilots and many more of them and it's game over for the Germans, they sure didn't make it easy though.

 

[syscom3]

Quantity has a quality of its own.

Right on!!!!!!

 

[Twitch]

Thge fact is that the 262 was not being flown by green pilots. Schwalbe staffels were filled by combat hardened men that knew what the hell was going on. It's an Allied propagated myth that jets were flown by newbies.

But the juggernaut of victory wouldn't have been halted, only slowed no matter what the Germans did.

 

[Henk]

Yes, I agree with you Twitch, the Me-262 pilots were not pilots like they say in history books or even on TV, yes there were some of them, but not the numbers they say. The Heinkel 162 did not have experienced pilots.

I agree, the Germans did have great aircraft, and yes if they show you the produck is from Germany it is quality.

Henk

 

[Jank]

As a pure dogfighter, my vote goes to the Spit Mk. XIV.

By the end of 1943, the Jerries only had to field very short range fighters as they were playing pure defense. The allies had to field long range planes as escorts and just to get to Berlin. There's no free lunch. That capacity for long range came at an expense.

Now, had the Jerries needed longer range fighters to prosecute the war on offense, those same aircraft would have been totally unsuitable.

Hell, take a F4U-4, P-47M or N or even P-51D and fill em up with just enough fuel for a 550 mile range and you will see some hot ships due to the reduced weight.

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Well, I'm an american so it came hard to admit the germans had the best stuff by about two 3 inches above us.


But I agree the Allies had the best long range fighters.

 

[syscom3]

A P80 vs Me-262 matchup would be interesting.

 

[pbfoot]

i think a better match up would be the F84 which probably if push came to shove could've been rolling of the lines in early 46

 

[Twitch]

One thing for certain- I'm glad most people here acknowledge accomplishments where accomplisments are due regardless of the country of origin. There are forums where bigoted a$$holes just will not see beyond the Allied aircraft and weapons.

Syscom3- I do think the first P-80 model vs the 262 would have been a better match than Meteor vs Schwalbe.

 

[Henk]

There are forums where bigoted a$$holes just will not see beyond the Allied aircraft and weapons.

I agree with you there Twitch.

Henk

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree that would have interesting to see how that would have panned out. The P-80 vs the Me-262. I personally think besides engines the Me-262 had the edge on the P-80 but not by much. But then again if the war had dragged on long eneogh to see a P-80 vs Me-262 match then we would probably be discussing the P.1011 and the Ta-183 right now instead.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Thge fact is that the 262 was not being flown by green pilots. Schwalbe staffels were filled by combat hardened men that knew what the hell was going on. It's an Allied propagated myth that jets were flown by newbies.

But the juggernaut of victory wouldn't have been halted, only slowed no matter what the Germans did.

Noobs no but some had low stick time as comabt pilots. That can be seen in the errors made by some that got shot down. An experten would not have made those moves.

In the Smithsonian book on the 262 restoration there is a section with a combat trial between the 262 and a P-80. The 262 was better and the report filed away out of sight.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Yes, I agree with you Twitch, the Me-262 pilots were not pilots like they say in history books or even on TV, yes there were some of them, but not the numbers they say. The Heinkel 162 did not have experienced pilots.

Myth on the 162 Henk.

 

[delcyros]

All pilots to fly He-162 were from JG-1, most of them were experienced combat pilots with a too few hours on the jet engine but they were experienced. I do believe they still hadn´t the class of III/JG7 or JV44 because they already deployed jet tactics.

 

[Twitch]

While the JG 1 guys had combat experience the original IDEA was that newly-trained pilots fly the 162. This never happened to any extent since the war ended. More nutty stuff....

 

[Marshall_Stack]

As a pure dogfighter, my vote goes to the Spit Mk. XIV.

By the end of 1943, the Jerries only had to field very short range fighters as they were playing pure defense. The allies had to field long range planes as escorts and just to get to Berlin. There's no free lunch. That capacity for long range came at an expense.

Now, had the Jerries needed longer range fighters to prosecute the war on offense, those same aircraft would have been totally unsuitable.

Hell, take a F4U-4, P-47M or N or even P-51D and fill em up with just enough fuel for a 550 mile range and you will see some hot ships due to the reduced weight.

Jank,

Great comments! I never thought about this issue in these terms.

 

[Henk]

Myth on the 162 Henk.

Nope, the He-162 pilots were mostly pilots that were trained with gliders and then put in the real thing, why? because there were no time to train them in the real aircraft. Fact.

Henk

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

Henk, how would the Horten Ho229 compare to the ME 262 or the Heinkel HE 162? It would be interesting for two of these jets going head to head with experienced pilots flying both of them.