The Greatest Fighter Jet of All Time.

[Soren]

Yeah, but at the time F reached service the bulk of the Sabre's were E models(Which unlike the A had hydraulic controls, a BIG advantage), although as you pointed out there were still some A's left.

The hydraulic controls and the automatic-slats introduced in the E made the Sabre more maneuverable than the MIG, and the introduction of a new and more powerful engine in the F gave the Sabre complete superiority over the MIG.

 

[Bullockracing]

Adler, I picked the F-15 without using any logic other than accelerating vertically is bada*s. I believe that the 15 is superior to the 16 due to the performance advantages, and the safety with the other engine.

The first five aircraft in this poll seem to be outclassed by the rest.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree that the F-15 is better than the F-16. Dont take me wrong. I just think that the ability to accelerate vertically does not stand it over the others. Just my opinion though.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Yeah, but at the time F reached service the bulk of the Sabre's were E models(Which unlike the A had hydraulic controls, a BIG advantage), although as you pointed out there were still some A's left.

The hydraulic controls and the automatic-slats introduced in the E made the Sabre more maneuverable than the MIG, and the introduction of a new and more powerful engine in the F gave the Sabre complete superiority over the MIG.

The only thing the Mig always had over the Sabre was acceleration - it could accelerate faster until the F-86 reached peak speed - this existed across all models - the key was not to put the Mig in an advantage where this slight edge could be exploited...

 

[Soren]

The only thing the Mig always had over the Sabre was acceleration - it could accelerate faster until the F-86 reached peak speed - this existed across all models - the key was not to put the Mig in an advantage where this slight edge could be exploited...

Yep, exactly.

 

[Bullockracing]

Yeah, but accelerating vertically gives me a chub, lol.....

 

[pbfoot]

I'll disagree the Canadian powered mk6 doubled the climb rate of other sabres Chuck Yeager stated the North American sabres were totally outclassed by the Mk6




This lists data about the Canadair Sabre and its F-86F cousin.

A Comparison - Sabre VI - F-86F
Wing Span 37 ft. 1 in - 39 ft. 1.5 in
Length 37 ft. 5 in - 37 ft. 6.5 in
Height 14 ft. 7 in - 14 ft. 9 in
Gross Weight - clean 14,400 lb - 15,198 lb
Engine Type Orenda 14 - GE J47-GE-27
Engine Thrust 7275 lb. - 5910 lb.
Range, small tanks 1480 miles - 926 miles
Initial Climb Rate, clean 11,800 ft/min - 8,100 ft/min
Max Speed 710 mph 678 mph
Climb to 40,000 - clean 6 minutes - unknown
Climb to 50,000 - clean 12 minutes - unknown

 

[Bullockracing]

Okay, maybe I'm lost again, but how do you compare the Mig 15/F-86 with the F-16 and Mig 29? Isn't this a little lopsided?

 

[pbfoot]

Okay, maybe I'm lost again, but how do you compare the Mig 15/F-86 with the F-16 and Mig 29? Isn't this a little lopsided?

no doubt about it you can't compare them i chose the 104 because of its longevity of service and it was a great sky heater

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Okay, maybe I'm lost again, but how do you compare the Mig 15/F-86 with the F-16 and Mig 29? Isn't this a little lopsided?

Not at all - in their day both were supposed to be the premiere dogfighters derived from opposing superpowers. In the end the F-16 has at least a 70 to 0 kill ratio with several MIG-29s now being used as spare roof parts in various parts of the world...

I think most of this is due to pilot training and operational ideology...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You can compare there achievements but obviously a F-15/F-16/Mig-29 is better than a Sabre or Mig-15.

 

[lesofprimus]

I agree....

 

[Haztoys]

Do not know alot about jets ... And at one time I knew alot about ww2 planes ...Untill I got here ... And now I see what I do not know much ,,LOL

But ....Should the Mig 21 be on the list too .... just wondering ..?

 

[lesofprimus]

Should the Mig 21 be on the list too?

Nope....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Possibly but it was more of a point defense fighter I believe.

 

[Haztoys]

From what I'm reading here ..The Russian Jets "never" or ever were in the same class as the West... ??????????

Is there any point in History were the Russian Jets were on par with the west ??..

Just at the Korean War start? ..And after that they've been behind ever sents..? No ?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ofcourse they were, if you read up on the history of the Cold War aircraft you will find that at the beginning of the Korean Conflict the Mig-15 had the edge which in turn gave the Soviets the edge. The Sabre eventually was upgraded and modified giving it the edge over the Mig and the pendulum swung back in favor of the West. Throughout the Could War the West did build the better aircraft right up until the F-16 and the F-15. When these 2 aircraft came out there was nothing to compare them to in the world. The closest that the Soviets had was the Mig-25 Foxbat and that aircraft prooved to be really nothing but fast. She was not very maneuverable. When the Soviets learned of the F-16 and the F-15 they looked at there outdated Airforce and realized they really had been left behind and designed the Mig-29 and the Su-27 which in turn swung the pendulum back in there favor. Since then they have kept par with the west but It will be interesting if they come up with something to counter the F-22. I doubt it because they are so cash strapped.

The main thing that kept the Soviets behind was not there designs but what they put into there aircraft. Most Soviet aircraft relied heavelly on ground guidance to there targets. You took out the ground radar and they were shooting in the dark. Traditionally the avionix packages in the Soviet Aircraft was lacking compared to the west.

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

I am saying the F-86 Sabre because I think it is cool and it had a proven success rate against enemy fighters.




Thats what I voted for. For pretty much the same reasons.

And anyway now that I think about it, it makes sense, since George Welch
broke the Sound Barrier in it while testing it. In fact, he wasn't supposed to break it before Yeager, but he did anyway.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Nice siggy there, I love the P-51s over Neuschwanstein Castle. It really is a beautiful castle to visit.

 

[lesofprimus]

I am saying the F-86 Sabre because I think it is cool

Probably not the best reason to vote for an aircraft as Greatest of All Time.... And for the record, all the aircraft on this poll have had proven success against enemy aircraft, mock combat or otherwise....