The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII... Finalized....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Welcome and great post.

The one thing though is Rommel and the Afrika Korps in N. Afrika were not there for oil. If they were after oil they would have gone to the middle east. Basically they were there to help out the Italians and tie up the British so they could not be elsewhere.

I may be wrong but if I am correct there were aces that scored higher in the N. Afrika and Malta areas. For example:

Major Joachim Muenchenberg had 31 of his 102 kills were in this Theatre.

Major Werner Schroer had 61 kills.

 

[ricardo]

unnerving Schroer to the point that he ran for home.

Thats a bunch of crap... I doubt seriously that that was the case......[/quote]

Nouuuu.... Clive Caldwell as a fact DID NOT SHOT DOWN WERNER SCHROER'S WINGMAN... neither he scared Schroer to the point he ran for home. This is not the real story.

Clive Caldwell was attacked and his aircraft caught flames. He went down in a violent slip and then pull out and blacked out due to the recovering from the ensuing dive. His attackers disengage (Schroer and his wingman) and Schroer claimed a victory as he saw Caldwell's TOMAHAWK AK493 went down in flames.

When Caldwell recovered, he pulled up to bale out but the fire suddenly died out, so he decided to attempt a landing. On his way home he found some Bf109 so he climb and dive and shot down one of the enemies.

Please see OSPREY AIRCRAFT OF THE ACES #38 (TOMAHAWK AND KITTYHAWK ACES OF THE RAF AND COMMONWEALTH) page 12 13.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Osprey Books are not the best sources for information. Great pics though.

 

[-JJH-]

Hey, where is Eino Ilmari Juutilainen?

I'd say he should be up there too, after all he is Finnish Air Force top ace with 94 1/6 kills. He also flew both in Winter War and in Continuation War. In addition, no Russian pilot EVER managed to hit his aircraft, all damage that his aircraft suffered was by flak!

-JJ-

 

[Hunter368]

Nice thread I was thinking of starting one just like it, now I don't I just have to read 6 pages and then I will post. Sweet, good job Les.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hey, where is Eino Ilmari Juutilainen?

I'd say he should be up there too, after all he is Finnish Air Force top ace with 94 1/6 kills. He also flew both in Winter War and in Continuation War. In addition, no Russian pilot EVER managed to hit his aircraft, all damage that his aircraft suffered was by flak!

-JJ-

Yes he was a great pilot, and he is very worth mentioning I just think that there are about 20 or more pilots that rank above him.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

I'd vote Molders, but i chose Cartman instead cos molders wasnt there.
or that Finnish pilot, the Juutilainen.

I read this thing on how finnish pilots were trained, it said that they would fly at very loose formations at an advantageous position then attack from nowhere... if u were a soviet pilot.

 

[Truk]

Hartmann never lost a wingman - that alone is the reason he gets my vote.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I voted Hartmann but if I could vote twice the other guy would Heinz Bar.

 

[Gnomey]

I have voted for Hartmann as well, not sure who would be second as there a lot of viable candidiates in my opinion.

 

[Erich]

After looking over this lengthy thread for months I have have come to the conclusion in my opinion ................ none of the above

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Who would you vote for then Erich?

 

[Erich]

I am still deciding, as it would probably be an unknown that served in the Reichsverteidigung in 44-45 and then posisbly the last stint on the Ost front against numerous Soviet a/c. possibly Oskar Romm but will have to think further on this ....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ahh Osker Romm, with his 92 victories. He is not a bad choice. Most of victories were on the east front and being Il-2s.

 

[Erich]

A SturmFw pilot in IV.Sturm/JG 3 and then as Gruppenkommandeur he was one of the leading scorers flying the Dora 9 on the Ost front. flew 3 different Doras of the Gruppenstab. A very gracious man with his knowledge and highly overlooked as one of Germany's best pilots

 

[Erich]

another pic of him in dress tunic

 

[Hunter368]

I am still deciding, as it would probably be an unknown that served in the Reichsverteidigung in 44-45 and then posisbly the last stint on the Ost front against numerous Soviet a/c. possibly Oskar Romm but will have to think further on this ....

Please explain Eric why him? He shot down 92 a/c "only" and 82 of those were in the east, 10 were western and 8 of those were bombers. I know more about the pilots then the planes (just my point of interest, I have always found the men more interesting then the machines). I do have my pick but I am still thinking about back and forth. I will decide soon. Eric you know that I highly respect your thoughts on anything to do with Germany but why are you considering Oskar?

 

[syscom3]

Shouldnt one way of determing who was the best among the aces is to compare their kill rate per sortie where combat occured?

Robert Johnson of the 56th FG had an impressive kill rate by itself and it compared among the best of the German pilots where anytime he got into a fight, he shot someone down.

 

[Erich]

possibly in his honesty as a human being. He was not an overachiever meaning he did not bolster his score so he could be eleveated. total scores mean othing to me but tactics and where served and the giving of their stories openly and not hyped as some of the living aces have from both sides of the conflict. Oskar for one is credited with many kills on both fronts but also an associated number of different types of a/c. and also flying several a/c types which again proves his excellent mental state as a pilot. I truly believe had he been given the chance he would of proved himself quite able in the Me 262 and there are also several noted pilots of interest that flew in JG 7 that also flew prop drivens earlier in the war that are hardly even given credence. These latter pilots knew without doubt that every mission flown was suicide

 

[lesofprimus]

To repeat my previous statement, Heinz Bar, IMO, was head and shoulders above the rest of the field...