The Guns We Own

[GrauGeist]

You're right, Matt...they'll term any of the above listed loads as "excessive force" and the legal adventure begins.

It's a rare case when a homeowner or potential victim prevails over the local District Attorney or public sentiment in a defensive shooting. The current mentality is that no matter how much in danger the potential victim was in, he/she used a horrible gun to a protect themselves. That makes them pretty much the criminal in this case, even if the assailant was a felon hopped up on dope packing a stolen weapon. The media will villify the defender and show how wonderful the bad guy was and the prosecuting attornet will scrape and pry to find anything that will amplify just how viscious the defender was.

They will take the facts from the shooting incident (how many shots fired, what type of weapon/ammo used on the bad guy, did the bad guy have a weapon and if so, what type was it fired?), then they'll go and look for bumper stickers (even NRA can be damning), clever signs (like Matt mentioned), hunting club memberships, profile the type of weapons that are found in the defender's home (how many shotguns, are there military weapons/memorabelia?, etc) and build up a profile to the jury that they weren't defending themselves, they were out to kill...period.

It's cool to see the goodguys in the movies put the hurt on the badguys with all sorts of wicked firepower and stunning killshots while expending several thousand rounds per episode, but the real world can be turned upside down with a single gunshot...

 

[RabidAlien]

You might be surprised, actually, what the laws covering defense of personal property (and lives!) say. I looked up the "Castle Law" here in Texass the other day, and was surprised to find out that the "duty to retreat" section had been struck out back in '06 or '07. Which makes it on a par with Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. If there is a reasonable threat (ie, someone kicking in your door or coming in through a window), you can use whatever force necessary to defend yourself, your family, and your property (to include home, vehicle, and place of business). "Reasonable" means that some dumb 10 year old cutting across your lawn to get home after school is not a threat, unless he's carrying a lead pipe and surrounded by a dozen of his fellow hoods. If you haven't already, I'd encourage every gun owner here (whether you carry on a daily basis or not...and if you carry, you'd dam well BETTER know the local laws!) to become familiar with your local laws and regulations. Ignorance is no longer a viable defense, with the ease of finding information through classes or the Internet.

Texass' "Castle Law"

 

[mikewint]

I second everything that Matt stated. Putting up ANY of these cute signs around your house is an admission that you are a killer prone to use lethal force. Even Beware of the Dog signs ae used in court as an admission that you have a vicious animal and it will be used against you if your dog bites someone.
Now I have also said that, "It is better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6". On the other hand, wound some moron and you could be looking at millions in court costs and damages. So, damn tough call "Lethal Force" and "Excessive Force"
And RA, GOOD for Texas

 

[bobbysocks]

you are absolutely right...i have never shot anyone. but if i feel my life or the life of one of my family members is in real peril...i will worry about the consequences later. i will do what i can to make sure my family or myself are safe...but will see what way the winds blow after that and make decisions to stay and fight in court or dissapear off the face of the earth...

 

[mikewint]

Bobby, I teend to agree with you but once you have property the disappearing act gets tougher. Courts award damages to crooks and morons for assinine reasons. one of my all time favorites:
October 1998: A Terrence Dickson of Bristol,
Pennsylvania was leaving a house he had just finished
robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the
garage door to go up since the automatic door opener was
malfunctioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the
door connecting the house and garage locked when he
pulled it shut. The family was on vacation. Mr. Dickson
found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He
subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of
dry dog food. He sued the homeowner's insurance claiming
the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury
agreed to the tune of half a million dollars.
Or even better:
October 1999: Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas
was awarded $14,500 and medical expenses after being
bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbour's
beagle. The beagle was on a chain in it's owner's
fenced-in yard. The award was less than sought because the
jury felt the dog might have been just a little provoked
at the time by Mr. Williams who was shooting it repeatedly
with a pellet gun.

 

[muscogeemike]

My favorite came from the NRA's magazine about citizens being armed when confronted by criminals.

In Phoenix, AZ, an elderly woman who shot a man breaking into her home was charged by the DA.

During her trial the DA ask her why she had shot the guy 6 times. She replied "because when I pulled the trigger the seventh time the gun went click."

She was acquitted by the jury.

In the mid '90's, in Riverside County, S. CA, a sheriffs deputy was chasing a drug dealer in a trailer park where mainly retired couples lived (my grandparents among them). The bad guy was jumping fences, running through back yards and the deputy was following. In several yards resided dogs and the deputy shot and killed some of them.

When residents complained the County Sheriff refused to even start an inquiry - stating the deputy was performing in the line of duty and protecting himself. Among the dogs he was "protecting" himself from were Dachshunds, Chihuahuas, and Poodles.

This same Sheriff and his dept. was sued over another issue. Despite thousands of requests, according to public records, in his more than 20 yrs in office the only people he had issued concealed weapons permits were politicians and VIPs (read contributors to his campaigns).

 

[GrauGeist]

This same Sheriff and his dept. was sued over another issue. Despite thousands of requests, according to public records, in his more than 20 yrs in office the only people he had issued concealed weapons permits were politicians and VIPs (read contributors to his campaigns).

Sherrif Gates of L.A. County was alledgedly doing the same thing...

 

[Matt308]

Sounds like New York.

 

[bobbysocks]

mike, both of those jurys should have been drawn and quartered for rendering a decision like that. the owners of the house and dog must have had really crappy lawyers. but i guess that is the way this country is going. in the case of the dog i am surprised the ASPCA didnt nail that guys hide to the shed wall. in this country you can get more jail time for mistreating an animal than you can for killing a human!

 

[mikewint]

Ain't it the truth Bobby, unfortunately those are exactly te kind of juries you have to face. Force is a slippery slope but being dead is permanent. On the other hand I'm too old to live on the streets because I lost everything in some civil court. It is a tough call.

 

[bobbysocks]

mike you can come for an extended visit at my place in belize.... where no one knows who you are nor do they give a $#!T.

 

[mikewint]

Bobby, pretty much the same here in Arkansas. The house is pretty much out in the country and I have a shooting range out in the back yard where we shoot all the time. Besides the Dobe and the guns anyone trying to break-in is in for an unpleasant surprise. It is a tough call as to how some State's At. is going to look at it. Then you are looking at thousands of dollars just to defend yourself and who knows how the jury is going to react. It's an F'ed up world and I'm a dino

 

[mikewint]

Several gun shows later: an 1874 Colt SSA, modified and updated to modern standards (destroyed most of its value, good thing) making it an every day shooter.
Picked up a nice "Cowboy styled holster and belt for it.
OWA (Orville W Ainsworth, army inspector) cartouche on the Left, mahogany grips, US stamp on the frame, 7.5in barrel make this a calvery model destined for the 7th calvery
Original "Bullseye" extractor end but cylinder screw locking screw has been modified to a thumb style screw

 

[mikewint]

More gun show booty: Stoeger purchased the US patent to the Luger name. In 1991 Aimco began to manufacture "American Eagle" 9mm Lugers. These were marketed by Mitchel Arms. In 1994 Stoeger purchased the rights to market the Texas built Lugers. This is a 1993 Mitchel Arms 9mm Luger brand new in original box. To my knowledge it has been fired only once at the factory.
The Knights Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords is WWII vintage

 

[RabidAlien]

AWESOME! Lovin that Colt!!!

 

[mikewint]

RA, me too, normally an orginal in good condition and with a traceable history run $10,000 to $35,000. WAY out of m price range and it could only be looked at and touched with gloves lest the value be lowered. This is a shooter and with that long 7.5 barrel accurate. Only downside, .45 long colt is expensive to shoot. Got me thinking about reloading.
Normally I am aginst gun paper weights but that American Eagle Luger was too good to pass on. So I have my first display only gun

 

[mikewint]

More Booty: Back around 1970 I bought my first hand gun, one of the Colt Snake series, a Colt Python. When money got tight in the land I sold it for about $400US. Wanted it back ever since. Found this one at a show in almost new condition. It has Pachmayr grips installed but is otherwise original. One of the really neat things is the caliber. The .357 mag round is a man stopper but if you want to shoot targets is happily shoots .38 special for half the price

 

[bobbysocks]

i always loved the P-08 luger's looks...and the P-38 walther. they were the guns usually used in the spy flicks.... back in the mid to late 80s they found a warehouse full of parts for both guns...recievers and all. they flooded the market with non-matching serial numbered models. before then you couldnt touch one for uner $400....these sold for around $250.

 

[Torch]

I'm liking the show,nice...

 

[mikewint]

Thanks Torch, as soon as the gunsmith finishes with the P-08 Luger I'll post pics.