The Guns We Own

[GrauGeist]

Now that is a great story, a piece of history to be preserved and not just destroyed. It's corney but everytime I touch it I have to think of all the other hands that held it since 1939. What makes it even better is that it is a "shooter" not just a museum piece in a glass case.

That's why I appreciate my 7x57 Mauser...it has had a long association of history as it happened during two world wars. Some people say "oh if this could talk"...honestly, I am glad this Mauser can't, because it's had a prime view of the uglier side of humanity.

 

[mikewint]

Bromhead, please post a pic
Grau, while I understand your point, i would disagree to a point, War is also humankind at its best and nobleist. Where else do you see men falling on grenades, charging machineguns, ect. Early in Vietnam one of our camps was over run. The medic, a good friend had both legs blown off. He refused evac or treatment, except for having the Yards put belts on his stumps. He continued to direct medical treatment to the other wounded until he bled out.

 

[Matt308]

Lord...

 

[GrauGeist]

I see your point, Mike...but warfare overall is a nasty business and there are occasions when men rise above and beyond the din to accomplish feats that would rarely happen in times of peace.

When my Mauser was brand shiny new, it entered service during the twilight of the old-world military disclipline and finished it's service at the dawn of a modern military disclipline. The forestock is forever blood-darkened from bayonette use, the bolt and reciever is blood etched and the butt and cheeckstock is distorted and dented from countless helmet impacts when it was used as a club. It's certainly an old warrior and has infinite stories to tell, you can just imagine by looking at it...but like I mentioned before, I'm glad it's kept those stories locked away in it's wood and steel

 

[Matt308]

Just curious... how do you discern a 70 year old stain on a wooden stock and coloration on hardened steel to be blood and wood dents to be barbaric evidence of last of life fighting. I too have relic firearms.

No offense meant.

 

[GrauGeist]

No prob, Matt

I never paid much attention to the darkened portions of the wood, since it had an overall dark apearance anyway. It wasn't until I broke it down completely to refinish the stock, that I realized why the foreward portion was so dark. When we seperated the upper from the lower, it had dried blood beneath the bayonette lug reinforcing ring and beneath the two portions of the stock (dried blood being caked between the upper and lower stock portions) up to about an inch foreward of the sling ring/lock assemby. Where the barrel had been exposed to the caked blood, also left the steel darkened in an uneven pattern, but matched exactly, the caked blood, where it had worked in. A portion of the bolt/receiver (right side, rearward) has similiar markings that descended below and into the stock for a shot distance, though it wasn't as thick and and pronounced as the forestock. I did find some very light rust around the internal mag's "trap door" but this was a thin haze, and typical reddish/orange in color.
The rest over the steel is in overall good shape, no rust pitting, the bluing having been worn thin with the passage of time (we've used this as a hunter for many years) and it hasn't been exposed to any extreme weather or abuse since it came home with my Great Uncle Carl from Europe, 1945.

 

[Matt308]

If that is so, too bad you have destroyed all historical significance by using it as a hunter "for many years". At least she isn't a safe queen.

 

[javlin]

If that is so, too bad you have destroyed all historical significance by using it as a hunter "for many years". At least she isn't a safe queen.

How's that Matt?I would feel that as long as the rifle has not been modified it still has reverance.Shooting a gun does not harm it value in most cases still being functional increases the value.I have had this same discussion about my G43 it needs to be recrowned but about 50% take the position against that while others have weighed in it does not affect the value.I never did the recrown left as is I rarely shoot her except to show off at times

 

[GrauGeist]

I know of alot of weapons that came out of the war that were modified or "sporterized" in one way or another. I suppose everyone though there was either an unlimited supply of surplus rifles/pistols or they didn't care. The same can be said for the aircraft, vehicles as well.

This Mauser hasn't been modified in any way, it has been missing it's cleaning rod for over 60 years and never had a sling that we know of. The rear sling ring was damaged ages ago and needs replacing, but other than that, it looks the same now as it did in family photos from the 50's 60's.

If it's any consolation, I didn't refinish the stock as I had intended. After opening her up and seeing all that, I checked all the metal surfaces and did some light cleaning and put her back together.

I don't hunt with the old girl any more...haven't since the mid 90's though I do occasionally take it down to the range and run some rounds through it. I will also say that for it's age and what's it's endured, it is still deadly accurate and delivers a hell of a punch to it's target.

 

[Jack_Hill]

Hi GrauGeist,
Did your Mauser (98K ?, cannot access pics anymore, sorry), insured hunting duty for years without any complete stripping and inner parts greasing/integrity checking before you did ?

 

[bromhead]

Bromhead, please post a pic
Grau, while I understand your point, i would disagree to a point, War is also humankind at its best and nobleist. Where else do you see men falling on grenades, charging machineguns, ect. Early in Vietnam one of our camps was over run. The medic, a good friend had both legs blown off. He refused evac or treatment, except for having the Yards put belts on his stumps. He continued to direct medical treatment to the other wounded until he bled out.

My platoon medic was one of the bravest men imaginable,,risking everything when evacs couldnt get in to an LZ,,keeping people alive with desperate skill,a silver star was small compensation,,well done doc johnson

 

[mikewint]

Grau, what a treasure you have I hope you keep it and pass it on
Javilin, take a true historic gun and changing it in any way changes its value to any collector. My Colt SAA if left intact would have been worth thousands but once modernized to make it shootable the value decreased many fold, the Luger has 2 non-matching parts turning it into a functional arm and destroying its value as a collectors piece. None of this mattered to me as I am not a collector. I want to shoot my guns. One does not take a 3.5 million dollar .45 Luger and shoot it

 

[GrauGeist]

Hi GrauGeist,
Did your Mauser (98K ?, cannot access pics anymore, sorry), insured hunting duty for years without any complete stripping and inner parts greasing/integrity checking before you did ?

Oh she's been well taken care of and has been to a family friend who's a gunsmith over the years. It hasn't had a military round through it in years, although we've been assured the chamber/reciever bolt can handle it. I've always used Norma or Remington ammo (and once in a great while, Hornady) and as always, she gets a thorough cleaning before being put back into the cabinet after a workout.

And Mike, I rarely trade or sell off a weapon but family pieces are never negotiated! I have several family heirlooms (this rifle, my Grandmother's 1917 Savage .32, my Dad's M1 .30 Carbine, etc.) but sadly enough, I don't have a son to pass them on...I have a daughter, but that's not even a consideration (for other reasons)...but I think I still have a little time to figure that out

And I might mention that there's two rifles that I don't fire, one is a Texas Ranger's commerotive .30-30 Winchester, NIB and has never been fired and a mid-serial Rockola M1 .30 carbine. These remain tucked away, only to see the light of day once in a blue moon when it's time to show off for a moment and then back to the darkness once again!

 

[mikewint]

Grau. that is really fantastic, I truely hope you find some way to pass all this down in your family to people who respect what these stand for not just a quick buck on Ebay. It is always sad when I see these estate sales of WWI, WWII, Vietnam Vets. The same here, I doubt any of my kids would keep and respect all the things I brought back. Tried several museums but no real interest other than, "ya will take it but...". Same for the guns and planes, sad

 

[javlin]

I tried loaning my G43 to the D-Day museum in N.Orleans sent them picks and info on the gun for they did not have one in the whole collection and not a peep??I was talking to the history teacher from USM down the street and he mentioned unless you are willing to donate they probably would not be interested

 

[vikingBerserker]

Man, that really stinks!

 

[GrauGeist]

I loaned my 1893 Marlin .30-30 to a museum ages ago for an exhibit they had on the "gold rush" era of California history...it was short-term, lasting as long as the exhibit.

From what I understand, museums this day and age don't want loaners because of liability, at least this is what I've heard from a few sources, but this isn't speaking for all of them.

 

[mikewint]

I offered a complete no strings donation. I just wanted to know that the items would actually be put on display and not just sit in a back room for years in some box and then disappear. No takers.

 

[Jack_Hill]

Not sure my post is not out of subject, but talking about collections and museums i'd ask :
Wich guns DID we owned ?
Considering my Country, we had (at least) two marvels that vanished in stupid ways...
First was a private collection, earned years after years, with considerable efforts, time and money by one single, local, passionnate and simple man.
The visit was hazardous, for the collection was in the backyard (huge, clean, fully enlighted, heated hangar) of the owner's cafe. (Yes, a cafe)
If the cafe was opened, visiting was possible.
If not, well,... Try again...
Place is called Givet, French Ardennes (Bulge).
Last visited in 89/90 winter.
Inside was : one working Sd.kfz 151.
-Two (2!!!) Mp 43 (prototypes).
-One complete infrared sighted Stg44 (prototype).
-One bit scattered but complete radar aimed (cupola) 2cm Flakvierling (prototype).
-An incredible (10,15, do not remember) collection of complete, from brand new to war weared m44 dot combat suits, each complete with full weaponery and accessories.
And much more stuffs, all from battle of the Bulge.
The old man sold the whole collection and the bar.
Did ministries of defence or culture even offered a dime to keep the collection home, I don't know.
Over...
Second : France owns some Pzkpfw V Panthers. At Saumur's Musée des blindés: 1 under restoration project for,soon I hope, full working condition,1 restored (static) Jagdpanther and, afaik, 3 other Panthers waiting for restoration.
Ummmmm, sry, not 3 anymore, only two indeed, for our ex-president self decided an "exchange" (for a Centurion) of one of our (national property, and wich Ausf and s/n is still a mistery) panther to Prince or king of Jordania in 2011.
Over...

 

[mikewint]

What is important is that they are on display and not being cut up for scrap. At and during the war, many, many captured German tanks, planes, etc. were shipped to the Aberdeen Proving ground for testing after which many were destroyed. I know the old must make way for the new but it's a sad loss.
Recently a local moron threatened to kill his wife. The police raided his house and found 47 guns valued at about half a million dollars. Wonder how many will "get lost"