The Guns We Own

[Ivan1GFP]

Loading 7 X 57 is no more difficult than .308, you just have a much larger selection of bullets in .308.

Once you have a supply of cartridge cases you are set for quite a while as with neck sizing and backing away from max loads you can easily get 10 reloading from each case.

I don't know that I ever bought reloadable 7 x 57 ammunition. If I did, it wasn't much of it.
I probably just got some to make sure the gun actually functioned.
As for neck sizing and backing away from max loads, I really can't do that. Gun is a semiauto.

I did pick up a few 7 mm bullets, but those were intended for a 7 mm Magnum. Maybe they are also suitable for 7 mm Mauser.

- Ivan.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

As for neck sizing and backing away from max loads, I really can't do that. Gun is a semiauto.

Is that the FN (49?) 7x57? I visited Century Arms in 1966 to pick up my mint '95 Mauser ($19), and they had just acquired a warehouseful of FN 7MM assault rifles, which were going out the door for $79.00 a pop. No checkbook or credit card, my pocket change could barely swing the Mauser. On the road with an aquatic biology crew, I had to mooch off my teammates for the rest of the week.

 

[Shortround6]

Up until the few years the major US manufactures made reloadable 7 x 57 ammo.
Expensive but since you can reload it a number of times it worked out OK.
Right now who knows??
Getting much of anything is pretty hard.

I have made .260 Rem out of both .308 and .243 in batches of several hundred rounds each.
Problem with the 7 X 57 is that it is in-between the .308 length stuff (51mm) and the .30-06 (63mm) and while the 63mm stuff can be shortened it is a lot more work.
depending on your dies and press you may be able neck neck down 8 x 57 or work on something else (.257 Roberts)?


Neck sizing is easier but some times you can back off a full length die just a bit. Depends on your chamber. You need enough resizing to get the loaded rounds back into your gun.
Not to get them into a minimum chamber gun, so it depends on where your individual chamber falls.

Backing away from max loads is sometimes a question of just a few percent in the powder charge, like maybe using 42.0 grains of powder instead of 44.0 grains? The chamber pressure goes up a lot faster than the velocity so sometimes you can get a reliable load and not beat the crap out of the gun and brass. Some semi autos are notoriously hard on brass, sometimes because the brass bounces off part of the gun as at clears the ejection port.

If you have a FN-49 the gas port is supposed to be adjustable?

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Yes, this is a FN-49 / SAFN. It is more a Battle Rifle than an assault rifle. No full auto, no detachable magazine even. I believe it is Venezuelan contract. I can't recall if the receiver has a dovetail on the side or not.

I have actually converted a lot of military .30-06 into 7.92 x 57 in the past. It was no big deal to do.
Did you know 8 mm Mauser came with a Lake City headstamp????
As for the FN, you do NOT want to have oversize or marginally sized cases. I don't undersize cases in any caliber if I can help it, but on certain guns, there isn't a lot of camming force to close the action. The FN-49 is like the FN FAL in that respect. Rotating bolts are a lot easier to deal with.
The gas system can be adjusted but screwing with that generally means destroying or damaging a few cases while doing the tuning. That isn't a big deal if you are using military surplus, but not so good with reloadable stuff that is hard to get.
Chances are that if I had bought any reloadable stuff it would have been by PPU or Sellier Bellot.

I once had a FN-49 that was converted to .308 Winchester. The fellow who did the conversion didn't really arrange things all that well so even with the sleeve screwed completely shut to put max pressure into the gas cylinder, it would not always cycle. I got my money back because the gun didn't work.
It would have been a really cool toy if it had worked.

- Ivan.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Hello All.
This is a pistol that is the same age as the book in the photograph and I have had it since it was new.
It was introduced in 1986 and when I bought it in 1987, it was not available in stainless steel yet. This particular gun is very well used with about 10,000 rounds through it of which roughly 8,500 were full power magnum loads. You all have already seen the effects of that many rounds on the forcing cone.
Accuracy is still quite good enough to pop a staple without a great deal of effort at 15 yards if the operator is capable. The holster is the same age as the gun.

- Ivan.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hello All.
This is a pistol that is the same age as the book in the photograph and I have had it since it was new.
It was introduced in 1986 and when I bought it in 1987, it was not available in stainless steel yet. This particular gun is very well used with about 10,000 rounds through it of which roughly 8,500 were full power magnum loads. You all have already seen the effects of that many rounds on the forcing cone.
Accuracy is still quite good enough to pop a staple without a great deal of effort at 15 yards if the operator is capable. The holster is the same age as the gun.

- Ivan.

The holster looks like one of the early production styles of Uncle Mike's holsters.

 

[drgondog]

I don't know that I ever bought reloadable 7 x 57 ammunition. If I did, it wasn't much of it.
I probably just got some to make sure the gun actually functioned.
As for neck sizing and backing away from max loads, I really can't do that. Gun is a semiauto.

I did pick up a few 7 mm bullets, but those were intended for a 7 mm Magnum. Maybe they are also suitable for 7 mm Mauser.

- Ivan.

The 7mm ammo (.284) is suitable for 7mm Mauser, 284, 280, 280 Ackley imp, 7 Rem Mag, 7 Wthby Mag, etc.
Easiest to find (relative) is 140, 150, 160 and 175gr bullets.

 

[drgondog]

Yes, this is a FN-49 / SAFN. It is more a Battle Rifle than an assault rifle. No full auto, no detachable magazine even. I believe it is Venezuelan contract. I can't recall if the receiver has a dovetail on the side or not.

I have actually converted a lot of military .30-06 into 7.92 x 57 in the past. It was no big deal to do.
Did you know 8 mm Mauser came with a Lake City headstamp????
As for the FN, you do NOT want to have oversize or marginally sized cases. I don't undersize cases in any caliber if I can help it, but on certain guns, there isn't a lot of camming force to close the action. The FN-49 is like the FN FAL in that respect. Rotating bolts are a lot easier to deal with.
The gas system can be adjusted but screwing with that generally means destroying or damaging a few cases while doing the tuning. That isn't a big deal if you are using military surplus, but not so good with reloadable stuff that is hard to get.
Chances are that if I had bought any reloadable stuff it would have been by PPU or Sellier Bellot.

I once had a FN-49 that was converted to .308 Winchester. The fellow who did the conversion didn't really arrange things all that well so even with the sleeve screwed completely shut to put max pressure into the gas cylinder, it would not always cycle. I got my money back because the gun didn't work.
It would have been a really cool toy if it had worked.

- Ivan.

Curious re process to fireform 30-06 in 7.92x57. The SAAMI specs asy the 30-06 case is longer (2.494) vs 7.92x51 (2.240). Addiionally the shoulder is longer (1.948 vs 1.827). Offhand, even the shoulder diameter is greater for 30-06. Can't chamber 30-06 into 8mm.

Did you mean .308/7.62x51? That's doable with caution.

 

[Shortround6]

It requires trimming the brass to the correct length, then sizing the shoulder to its correct location/shape.

If the shoulder is a bit smaller (I haven't looked it up) you can leave just enough bump at the base of the neck to headspace on.
A light bullet with a reduced load should pop the shoulder out full dimension.
A lot of work but the case should be good for a number of firings in a Bolt action rifle.

It may help if you have forming dies instead of just full length sizing dies and a large press and sturdy bench.

It may be too much trouble and expense for just a couple of boxes of brass.

 

[drgondog]

It requires trimming the brass to the correct length, then sizing the shoulder to its correct location/shape.

If the shoulder is a bit smaller (I haven't looked it up) you can leave just enough bump at the base of the neck to headspace on.
A light bullet with a reduced load should pop the shoulder out full dimension.
A lot of work but the case should be good for a number of firings in a Bolt action rifle.

It may help if you have forming dies instead of just full length sizing dies and a large press and sturdy bench.

It may be too much trouble and expense for just a couple of boxes of brass.

SR - take a look at SAAMI spec. Iwould doubt that any die combination will take a 30-06 to a 7x51. First the nect thim of 06 needs to be about .25 leaving about 0.14 neck. Next the diameter to the shoulder of 06 is 0.441 at 1.948 inch from base. The 8x57 'shoulder' of 0.431 is at 1.827 from the base' - that is a LOT of diameter reduction of the 06 case behind the shoulder/neck to get down to 8x57. Then the real begins with required next step - 'push' the 30-06 shoulder back from 1.948 to 1.827 so that the intemediate case will at least chamber - with no headspace for fireforming. What next?

MAYBE the 8x57 die can accept the trimmed 06 brass (with 40 degree shouler) into the 20 degree 8x57 shoulder and ently pressure squeeze with many strokes to jam the longer/larger diameter 06 case - but I doubt worth the effort if even possible. The 06 case has to really have a lot of power applied to ge the shoulder datum correct from 06 to x57.

 

[Shortround6]

It can be a done and there are a lot of ways/paths it can be done.
Questions are how much money and or time do you want to spend.

A number of videos on You tube.
Anything from jigs with power trimers to using a hacksaw across the top of a die for shorting the case.

You can bump the case neck up bit (like to take a .338-358 expander plug? ) and then neck it back to take the .323 bullet leaving a small false shoulder at the base of the neck and use a light load to expand the body/shoulder to the needed size.

Again, it is not cost (or time) effective for 20-40 cases, but if you have a lot of 30-06 cases and you need/want a lot reloadable 8mm cases it is quite possible.
Many companies that sell reloading equipment will have stuff in their catalog. You may have to go to the manufactures and not you your local gun shop.
Some companies will offer kits or die sets to do this or to convert may other calibers.

It is possible to make .even .22-250 cases from .30-06 but that takes a lot more work and more steps and a higher scrap rate.

 

[drgondog]

It can be a done and there are a lot of ways/paths it can be done.
Questions are how much money and or time do you want to spend.

View attachment 678378
A number of videos on You tube.
Anything from jigs with power trimers to using a hacksaw across the top of a die for shorting the case.
View attachment 678379

You can bump the case neck up bit (like to take a .338-358 expander plug? ) and then neck it back to take the .323 bullet leaving a small false shoulder at the base of the neck and use a light load to expand the body/shoulder to the needed size.

Again, it is not cost (or time) effective for 20-40 cases, but if you have a lot of 30-06 cases and you need/want a lot reloadable 8mm cases it is quite possible.
Many companies that sell reloading equipment will have stuff in their catalog. You may have to go to the manufactures and not you your local gun shop.
Some companies will offer kits or die sets to do this or to convert may other calibers.

It is possible to make .even .22-250 cases from .30-06 but that takes a lot more work and more steps and a higher scrap rate.
View attachment 678380

SR - I agree with you that it can be done. My issues were 'why in hell would I go throught that process'. BTW nice assembly of images showing the tortuous process.

Over the years I have moved about 10 bolt/single shot guns and calibers and settled on 25-06, 30-06 and 338-06 (see a pattern here) plus the .308.

I only have 308 and 30-06 factory and make the rest out of 30-06 brass. I have a LOT of 30-36 resources, as well as 308 and 556

I used to loveand build off the 284 Win case. Too old and cranky now.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Curious re process to fireform 30-06 in 7.92x57. The SAAMI specs asy the 30-06 case is longer (2.494) vs 7.92x51 (2.240). Addiionally the shoulder is longer (1.948 vs 1.827). Offhand, even the shoulder diameter is greater for 30-06. Can't chamber 30-06 into 8mm.

Did you mean .308/7.62x51? That's doable with caution.

Hello Drgondog,
I actually didn't say anything about "fireforming" cases. I just stated "Conversions".
I had a lot of .30-06 GI Lake City cases and needed 7.92 x 57. There was nothing fancy about it. Just a resize and serious trim and everything worked out fine. I remember also trying to anneal them, but that didn't seem to make any great difference.
The point was that it could be done with ANY .30-06 or case with a similar sized head, but with commercial cases, there is the headstamp that says something different and the 7.92 Mauser isn't greatly different in appearance from a .30-06 at a casual glance..... If you mistakenly chamber a loaded round in a ,30-06 though, it could ruin your whole day! Best that the headstamp doesn't say something that it isn't, thus "LC 68" is just a touch less dangerous.

- Ivan.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

The holster looks like one of the early production styles of Uncle Mike's holsters.

Hello GrauGeist,
The first photograph actually has "Uncle Mike" on the plastic buckle. I don't know anything about the history of those holsters. I just bought one because it looked to be pretty good quality and was inexpensive. Considering the age, it seems to have held up pretty well.
The revolver was under $300 at the time. Contrast that to what they cost today! Trigger on these early guns was LOUSY. Over the decades, they have seriously improved. This particular gun actually has been seriously reworked and the trigger and timing is quite good. Springs are either by Wolff or Wilson. It has been so long I forget which.

Perhaps I should not tell you all this, but this photograph is "staged". This gun is not normally in this configuration. It normally wears a set of very similar looking compact grips from one of the fixed sight GP100s. The original grips wore out from use long ago.

- Ivan.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

This is the actual set of compact grips it normally wears. If I had known they would stop making these and transition to Hogue style grips, I would have bought a few more sets for when these wear out. Nothing happens to the wood, but the rubber is not very resistant to cleaning solvents and gets hard and shiny.

- Ivan.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

The 7mm ammo (.284) is suitable for 7mm Mauser, 284, 280, 280 Ackley imp, 7 Rem Mag, 7 Wthby Mag, etc.
Easiest to find (relative) is 140, 150, 160 and 175gr bullets.

Hello Drgondog,
I hadn't commented earlier, but I actually have a fair supply of 7 mm bullets. I happen to reload for the 7 mm Magnum for a Remington 700. I can't recall what the weights are because I haven't reloaded for that caliber in quite some time though.
There is some work that needs to be done to that gun first though: New scope and mounts.

- Ivan.

 

[drgondog]

Hello Drgondog,
I hadn't commented earlier, but I actually have a fair supply of 7 mm bullets. I happen to reload for the 7 mm Magnum for a Remington 700. I can't recall what the weights are because I haven't reloaded for that caliber in quite some time though.
There is some work that needs to be done to that gun first though: New scope and mounts.

- Ivan.

I loaded all the hot 7mm's with 140 or 175, depending- but for the big animal like elk, moose and bear i moved to 338/340 and never looked back. Had I gone to Africa I would have taken 30-06 or 300WM and the 375. At 77 I'm not mad at anything any more - unless we have a power grid shutdown.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

I loaded all the hot 7mm's with 140 or 175, depending- but for the big animal like elk, moose and bear i moved to 338/340 and never looked back. Had I gone to Africa I would have taken 30-06 or 300WM and the 375. At 77 I'm not mad at anything any more - unless we have a power grid shutdown.

I don't hunt at all. The 7 mm Magnum is intended only for target shooting. When I bought the rifle, I threw on a cheap set of Weaver bases and a BSA scope. Since then I have acquired a one piece base and a couple Bushnell ScopeChiefs. The optics are not really modern, but they are period appropriate (Mid 1960s) for the rifle and it is an all around better scope than the BSA. I just need to do some work, but at the moment, I am a bit more occupied with tuning pistols. I would also rather find a one piece Redfield turn-in base and rings instead of using the one piece steel Weaver base I already have even though the Weaver base with 20 MOA inclination would probably be more suited for target use.
As for a high power rifle, this particular 7 mm Mag isn't anywhere near as accurate as my .300 Win Mag, so it really isn't a first choice for anything other than something to play with. That is why it hasn't been a high priority to load for it or to finish working on it.

- Ivan.

 

[drgondog]

I don't hunt at all. The 7 mm Magnum is intended only for target shooting. When I bought the rifle, I threw on a cheap set of Weaver bases and a BSA scope. Since then I have acquired a one piece base and a couple Bushnell ScopeChiefs. The optics are not really modern, but they are period appropriate (Mid 1960s) for the rifle and it is an all around better scope than the BSA. I just need to do some work, but at the moment, I am a bit more occupied with tuning pistols. I would also rather find a one piece Redfield turn-in base and rings instead of using the one piece steel Weaver base I already have even though the Weaver base with 20 MOA inclination would probably be more suited for target use.
As for a high power rifle, this particular 7 mm Mag isn't anywhere near as accurate as my .300 Win Mag, so it really isn't a first choice for anything other than something to play with. That is why it hasn't been a high priority to load for it or to finish working on it.

- Ivan.

My only venture into a custom was a Jarrett 280 Ackley Improved Beanfield Model - with Leupold 2x9 it was a steady 1/2in five shot group up to 400 yards when the 3x9 ran out of range for my eyes. That said, nearly every Remington M700 I ever had was a 1 MOA out of the box. Any rifle I ever acqired that wasn't capable of 1" before tuning found another home to a less picky person. I have re-barrelled four or five, with Wiseman or Krieger barrels and happy with all.

Before I started liquidating my gun collection over last two years (my kids/grandkids are primary bird hunters and each have two of my prize rifes) but the recent 6.5 Creedmore with Nightforce glass and mounts was better than the Jarret at 400+. A really good shooter could compete at 1000 with this one - but I'm too old to try. My pistol tuning started and stopped at 1911's, primarily barrels, bushings and triggers - I started with stock Colt 1911A1, then Gold Cup because the trigger is better - but candidly buying a Wilson or equivalent made more sense. That said (eyes again), I'm not capable of better than 2 1/2-3 in groups anymore with a pistol capable of 1".

 

[wlewisiii]

My biggest improvement in pistol accuracy came from trading my 1911 in for a CZ75B... the inside rails and losing the swinging link ala the Hi-Power made a huge improvement.