The Guns We Own

wlewisiii said:

My biggest improvement in pistol accuracy came from trading my 1911 in for a CZ75B... the inside rails and losing the swinging link ala the Hi-Power made a huge improvement.

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I could see that would be an improvement, but mine is really accurate and my pointy haid loves the 1911.

Gotta' love the classics.

drgondog said:

My only venture into a custom was a Jarrett 280 Ackley Improved Beanfield Model - with Leupold 2x9 it was a steady 1/2in five shot group up to 400 yards when the 3x9 ran out of range for my eyes. That said, nearly every Remington M700 I ever had was a 1 MOA out of the box. Any rifle I ever acqired that wasn't capable of 1" before tuning found another home to a less picky person. I have re-barrelled four or five, with Wiseman or Krieger barrels and happy with all.

Before I started liquidating my gun collection over last two years (my kids/grandkids are primary bird hunters and each have two of my prize rifes) but the recent 6.5 Creedmore with Nightforce glass and mounts was better than the Jarret at 400+. A really good shooter could compete at 1000 with this one - but I'm too old to try. My pistol tuning started and stopped at 1911's, primarily barrels, bushings and triggers - I started with stock Colt 1911A1, then Gold Cup because the trigger is better - but candidly buying a Wilson or equivalent made more sense. That said (eyes again), I'm not capable of better than 2 1/2-3 in groups anymore with a pistol capable of 1".

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To be honest, I have never really been much into hunting rifles. As for customs, the .308 VSSF was rebuilt mostly out of necessity. The basic gun with tailored handloads could shoot sub MOA, but I wanted a gun that could do it with off the shelf ammunition and ammunition that would fit in the magazine. I figured I could control more things by buying and fitting a brand new Shilen heavy barrel than having someone machine the existing Remington barrel and set it back a thread. At that point, with the original barrel, nothing would really look right anyway and there were issues with the existing H&S Precision stock. As soon as the choice of a new barrel was made, essentially, all that was left of the original gun was the bolt and receiver and trigger group. I had already done rebarreling and finish chambering before a couple times, so it wasn't such a bit deal. Aligning the new recoil lug was a pain though.
When your bolt guns are mostly military surplus and iron sighted, expecting sub MOA isn't terribly realistic....

As mentioned earlier, I am on a bit of a pistolsmithing kick at the moment. It started when I realized that many parts that Ruger did not sell were now available as parts sets on eBay starting about a year or two ago. A bit of money and I had plenty of parts to mix and match to rebuild and improve a couple guns that had sat broken for decades. I learned a lot by experimenting with the parts sets and buying a couple spring kits.

Today's task was to fit a new sear spring into a Colt Gold Cup (in the photo upthread). The sear spring (Nowlin) needed a touch of work and the typical adjustment, but the end result is that I now have the trigger breaking at around 3 pounds 10 ounces though it feels a lot lighter. What came out was a Clark 4 leaf sear spring. I really don't like those.

wlewisiii said:

My biggest improvement in pistol accuracy came from trading my 1911 in for a CZ75B... the inside rails and losing the swinging link ala the Hi-Power made a huge improvement.

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A properly tuned 1911 can be amazingly accurate. 1911s tuned for Bullseye competition often can hold a 1 inch group at 50 yards. I have never tested my guns out that far, but I have one that was able to keep every group fired off the bench for several months averaging under 1.5 inches at 25 yards. It is not the most accurate 1911 I own. The ones with Kart barrels seem to do better than that. The swinging link is not really a problem for accuracy. The bullet is long gone by the time the barrel begins to link down. 1911s have plenty of other issues....

- Ivan.

Don't feel bad, my CZ Shadow 2 and Sig P210 both outshoot my eyesight. Orange front dot sight helps alot.

Negative Creep said:

Some nice weapons there. Just a shame the deadliest thing we can own over here is an air rifle

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So you will be throwing rocks at the Chinese when they show up on your door step?

manta22 said:

So you will be throwing rocks at the Chinese when they show up on your door step?

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Air rifles hurt like a b*tch...

GrauGeist said:

Air rifles hurt like a b*tch...

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Yeah you can shoot your eye out

GrauGeist said:

Air rifles hurt like a b*tch...

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My puny little RWS / Diana 460 will launch a 14.something Grain .22 cal pellet at about 870 FPS. They advertise a lot higher, but chronograph says about 870 FPS average. That is not even one of the higher velocity air rifles any more.
That is faster than GI Ball ammunition from a .45 Auto. Some of the really big air rifles today will put a much larger .45 cal "Pellet" out at about the same speed. These big air rifles make pretty viable hunting rifles for deer.

A couple weeks ago, I was working on yet another old 1911. I swapped out the sear spring with one by Cylinder & Slide and replace the sear with a brand new one from Colt. It seems to have cured the creep in the trigger and weight is now 3 pounds 11 ounces.
Last week I was shopping for yet another 1911 type. I am hoping to get a Kimber Pro Raptor II. I had to learn what al the Kimber code words meant. I don't want a "Carry" because that would be an aluminium frame gun.... Pro means it would be a Commander length gun with a full size grip frame.

"Last week I was shopping for yet another 1911 type." Have a look at a CZ85 or CZ75- all steel.

I have had a CZ 75 clone for well over 20 years now. It is a pretty accurate gun, but the trigger reach in double action is a bit long.

manta22 said:

"Last week I was shopping for yet another 1911 type." Have a look at a CZ85 or CZ75- all steel.

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The Turkish company, Canik made some excellent CZ clones. I love mine.

Ivan1GFP said:

I have had a CZ 75 clone for well over 20 years now. It is a pretty accurate gun, but the trigger reach in double action is a bit long.

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My CZ85 is more accurate than my Browning High Power.

My CZ75 is actually a AT84 made by ITM of Switzerland. I don't really know if it is any more accurate than my Hi Powers. The Mk II Hi Power will shoot under 1.5 inches at 25 yards. I am not sure about the Mk III because I haven't shot it anywhere near as much and haven't worked up any really great target loads. 9 mm was always so cheap until recently that there really wasn't much of a point to reloading for it and I got out of pistol reloading for a few years to concentrate on rifles. The AT84 is pretty similar in accuracy to the Hi Powers but doesn't really shoot to point of aim. It shoots about a foot high at 25 yards. One of the issues with the Mk III Hi Power is that it still has the factory fixed sights. The Mk II has adjustable rear which luckily matches with the very fixed front sight (machined as part of the slide).
I know for sure that at least a couple 1911s with Kart NM barrels have shot better than any of the 9 mm but don't know if that is a matter of ammunition. I have literally been able to get groups of one ragged hole out to 25 yards. I have done quite a lot of reloading for .45 ACP but it has all been fairly hot loads because I tend to use fairly heavy recoil springs. Another 1911 wears a Bar-Sto barrel and yet another wears an Ed Brown barrel. The Ed Brown barrel was the first ever that I fit to a gun and is not really a hard fit barrel so I might be able to tighten it up a bit with a larger slide stop. I hesitated to mess with it though because it will hold under 1.5 inches now and is perfectly reliable and I use it as a home defence gun.

Ivan1GFP said:

My CZ75 is actually a AT84 made by ITM of Switzerland. I don't really know if it is any more accurate than my Hi Powers. The Mk II Hi Power will shoot under 1.5 inches at 25 yards. I am not sure about the Mk III because I haven't shot it anywhere near as much and haven't worked up any really great target loads. 9 mm was always so cheap until recently that there really wasn't much of a point to reloading for it and I got out of pistol reloading for a few years to concentrate on rifles. The AT84 is pretty similar in accuracy to the Hi Powers but doesn't really shoot to point of aim. It shoots about a foot high at 25 yards. One of the issues with the Mk III Hi Power is that it still has the factory fixed sights. The Mk II has adjustable rear which luckily matches with the very fixed front sight (machined as part of the slide).
I know for sure that at least a couple 1911s with Kart NM barrels have shot better than any of the 9 mm but don't know if that is a matter of ammunition. I have literally been able to get groups of one ragged hole out to 25 yards. I have done quite a lot of reloading for .45 ACP but it has all been fairly hot loads because I tend to use fairly heavy recoil springs. Another 1911 wears a Bar-Sto barrel and yet another wears an Ed Brown barrel. The Ed Brown barrel was the first ever that I fit to a gun and is not really a hard fit barrel so I might be able to tighten it up a bit with a larger slide stop. I hesitated to mess with it though because it will hold under 1.5 inches now and is perfectly reliable and I use it as a home defence gun.

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I'm talking out-of-the-box pistols- no modifications. Both my CZ-85 and High Power are originals, produced by CZ and Browning. That was my experience with these two pistols.

I just tried the Canik Mete, outstanding trigger, rivals my CZ Shadow2, Dan Wesson Specialist, Sig P210. Much better than my non stock Glock 45 and HK VP9. They give you alot of bang for buck. Put it on layaway, it'll be a great target gun. I realize the difference between sa/da and striker fire but the trigger pull and reset on the Mete and Rival series are fantastic

manta22 said:

I'm talking out-of-the-box pistols- no modifications. Both my CZ-85 and High Power are originals, produced by CZ and Browning. That was my experience with these two pistols.

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If we are restricted to out of the box, then for centerfire auto pistols, then my Kimber Classic Stainless would probably be one of the best. It has as good accuracy as the best 1911s but there were always some problems with the gun until recently when I replaced a few pieces. The AT84 isn't necessarily worse, it just doesn't shoot to point of aim. The Swiss make some pretty nice firearms. Nothing special about the Hi Powers I own, but they are made by Browning as well. They are just very common guns and are both the older forged guns so they are not quite as tough as the later cast receiver guns. I just bought a few replacement recoil springs for them last month.
For Revolvers, the general standards are pretty high. I know the GP100 is accurate enough to kill thumbtacks out to 15 yards. It is literally a "Tack Driver" and that is with full power loads. The Redhawk is just as accurate, but is not all that comfortable to hold or to shoot especially with full power loads.

Ivan1GFP said:

If we are restricted to out of the box, then for centerfire auto pistols, then my Kimber Classic Stainless would probably be one of the best. It has as good accuracy as the best 1911s but there were always some problems with the gun until recently when I replaced a few pieces. The AT84 isn't necessarily worse, it just doesn't shoot to point of aim. The Swiss make some pretty nice firearms. Nothing special about the Hi Powers I own, but they are made by Browning as well. They are just very common guns and are both the older forged guns so they are not quite as tough as the later cast receiver guns. I just bought a few replacement recoil springs for them last month.
For Revolvers, the general standards are pretty high. I know the GP100 is accurate enough to kill thumbtacks out to 15 yards. It is literally a "Tack Driver" and that is with full power loads. The Redhawk is just as accurate, but is not all that comfortable to hold or to shoot especially with full power loads.

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1911s just don't fit my hand very well. The CZ75/85 is an excellent grip for me while the 1911 feels like gripping a package of playing cards.

Ever tried a Polish VIS (P35) ? I have one that has a bore that looks like a rat hole but it still shoots reasonably accurately. Strange.

As reloading has been mentioned, can someone tell when the present primers shortage will end ?

manta22 said:

1911s just don't fit my hand very well. The CZ75/85 is an excellent grip for me while the 1911 feels like gripping a package of playing cards.

Ever tried a Polish VIS (P35) ? I have one that has a bore that looks like a rat hole but it still shoots reasonably accurately. Strange.

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I know I have seen the Polish Radom Pistol, but I am pretty sure I have never shot one. Sometimes barrels are unpredictable. With pistols, it is mostly a matter of how well fitted the barrels are and how consistent the lockup is. With revolvers, it is a lot harder to figure out though I am learning....

Regarding 1911s, 35 years ago, I would have agreed with you. Today, I won't because there are a lot more choices and many companies produced and customize the guns in ways that make them fit a lot of different people. My issue with the first Colt that I bought was the same: It felt too big and just didn't seem to point all that well. After just changing to a pair of thin checkered Rosewood grip panels, the gun feels totally different. Each grip panel is thinned about 1/16 inch. It doesn't sound like much but feels very different. I am about to do the same for another Colt gun with stock Colt medallion grips. Some companies cut a different radius under the trigger guard and that improves how the gun sits in the hand. The Colt Gold Cup I posted a picture of some time back had that done at the factory. Kimber does that also but in a less obvious manner. Some companies carve up or checker the front of the grip frame or have different shapes of grip safety and mainspring housings and triggers which change the general handling of the pistol.

Frog said:

As reloading has been mentioned, can someone tell when the present primers shortage will end ?

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Primers CAN be found at this point. In another forum, a member mentioned that Midway had a good supply of some primers. I don't know if the prices are particularly good though, especially with the HAZMAT fees.
Which size of primers are you looking for?