The Hs 129 idea done 'right', and for everyone

GrauGeist · Jun 10, 2024

tomo pauk said:
The BMW 139 was with even worse reliability problems than the early 801s, due to the in-built heart failure so to speak.
Even if it was a workable engine, the resulting aircraft designed around the two 139s would've been the size & weight of Bf 110/210.

Gotcha - I'm not all too familiar with the 139, just that the project was merged with Bramo's 323 for the 801 development.
I recall overheating issues with the 139's installation in the early Fw190 prototypes, but that was mainly attributed to the cowling design at the time.

MIflyer · Jun 10, 2024

Shortround6 said:
One .50, one .30 and about six 50lb bombs

HORRIBLE AIRPLANE! Even the Curtiss Chief Test Pilots said so. Add guns and bombs....? May as well make it a Kamikaze!

You want to do that mission? Here's the way. R-3350's are "non-strategic", right?

GrauGeist · Jun 10, 2024

The XA-38 is alot larger than Tomo is looking for.

Otherwise, you could toss the XP-58 into the mix, too.

tomo pauk · Jun 10, 2024

GrauGeist said:
Gotcha - I'm not all too familiar with the 139, just that the project was merged with Bramo's 323 for the 801 development.
I recall overheating issues with the 139's installation in the early Fw190 prototypes, but that was mainly attributed to the cowling design at the time.

BMW 139 have had all three bearings between the crank throws - yes, no usual front and end bearings as one can expect it on a radial engine. We sometimes criticize the German engineers of being too smart for their own good, and this was one such example.
The 801 was a wholesale redesign of the 139, with front, central and end bearing on the places one will expect to find them, and unsurprisingly that layout worked. Weight penalty was steep, some 25% extra vs. the 139.

(there was a lot of work for the 801 to be made to work between 1940 and 42, between the impellers cracking/breaking especially due to the FOD, improvements to the oil system, indeed the all-around better cooling of the engine, material for the valves+ coating...)

MIflyer · Jun 10, 2024

GrauGeist said:
Otherwise, you could toss the XP-58 into the mix, too.

You don't need turbos for ground attack!

I think this is about as small as you want to get for tank busting.

SaparotRob · Jun 10, 2024

MIflyer said:
You don't need turbos for ground attack!

But they sound cool!

GrauGeist · Jun 10, 2024

MIflyer said:
You don't need turbos for ground attack!

I think this is about as small as you want to get for tank busting.

View attachment 782593

You do realize that the XA-38's wingspan was about a foot wider than the P-61, right?

Also, the XP-50.would have been a better option than the XF5F.

Admiral Beez · Jul 1, 2024

Shortround6 said:
Any non-German air force that wants something like the Hs 129 using a 'non-strategic' engine is probably going to wind up with a bigger airplane.

Were any Armstrong Siddeley radials still in production? Otherwise if we exclude strategic Bristol, Napier and Rolls Royce engines, that leaves the Brits with the Pobjoy Niagara and de Havilland Gipsy and Major.

The likes of the postwar DH Gipsy Major powered Miles Gemini might be a place to start.

The Gemini won't have the power to carry much armour or armament, so not a great start for CAS. But its good slow speed (look at those huge flaps) and air cooled engines combined with minimal armour and perhaps a single 20mm cannon and a half dozen underwing rockets might be useful.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=esKPYeARmsU&pp=ygUMTWlsZXMgZ2VtaW5p

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-BqQ3Hf1RA&pp=ygUMTWlsZXMgZ2VtaW5p

z42 · Jul 2, 2024

Admiral Beez said:
Were any Armstrong Siddeley radials still in production?

Wiki says Cheetah was in production until 1948: Armstrong Siddeley Cheetah - Wikipedia

Edit: On an unrelated note, I like small radials. From an aesthethic viewpoint, sad they lost out to boxers for post-war GA.

Admiral Beez · Jul 2, 2024

z42 said:
Edit: On an unrelated note, I like small radials. From an aesthethic viewpoint, sad they lost out to boxers for post-war GA.

Me too. I visited the British Science Museum specifically to see the Pobjoy Niagara. Here's a photo I took in 2022.

Pics of Pobjoys

I took these photos of a Pobjoy Niagara at the London Science Museum in 2022. I put my hand in one photo for scale.

ww2aircraft.net

yulzari · Jul 2, 2024

Admiral Beez said:
Were any Armstrong Siddeley radials still in production? Otherwise if we exclude strategic Bristol, Napier and Rolls Royce engines, that leaves the Brits with the Pobjoy Niagara and de Havilland Gipsy and Major.

The likes of the postwar DH Gipsy Major powered Miles Gemini might be a place to start.

View attachment 786488

The Gemini won't have the power to carry much armour or armament, so not a great start for CAS. But its good slow speed (look at those huge flaps) and air cooled engines combined with minimal armour and perhaps a single 20mm cannon and a half dozen underwing rockets might be useful.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=esKPYeARmsU&pp=ygUMTWlsZXMgZ2VtaW5p

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-BqQ3Hf1RA&pp=ygUMTWlsZXMgZ2VtaW5p

There was the Gipsy Twelve with 450bhp but somewhat heavy for the power.

Shortround6 · Jul 4, 2024

I think the idea was for a better Hs 129, not a cheap one-way ride for the pilot

And yes, the Gypsy 12 was actually a few pounds heavier than the Bristol Mercury.

The Hs 129 idea done 'right', and for everyone

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