GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The V-770 had less HP than the 14M radials used on the 129B series and barely more than the As410 engines used on the 129A series.
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Can the concept of "non-strategic" engine include previous generation / models of "strategic" engines?
ISTR that at the end of the war the Germans had thousands and thousands of Jumo 211's sitting in crates.
Can the concept of "non-strategic" engine include previous generation / models of "strategic" engines? Given how often the engines were upgraded, I imagine it was common to be left with a bunch of inventory when the "important" aircraft switched over to the latest engine versions. ISTR that at the end of the war the Germans had thousands and thousands of Jumo 211's sitting in crates.
This can go several ways. For the BMW 132s on the Ju 52s, what are you going to use instead on the Ju 52s? Maybe you can restress the engine mounts/local structure to take a more powerful version, but you still need engines for the Ju 52s (new production of plane) and to keep the old ones flying. But now you have complicated logistics for the Ju 52 units. Not a lot.+1 on that idea.
Germans have had the low power versions of their radials still being installed on some aircraft (mostly the legacy BMW 132s on the Ju 52s) as far as 1944. The Polish war booty Mercury on the spin-off on the Fw 187 would've been also interesting, with Mercury being well behind the curve by 1939.
You could use 9 cylinder radials on the Hs 129 or clones, but there are several downsides.
Any non-German air force that wants something like the Hs 129 using a 'non-strategic' engine is probably going to wind up with a bigger airplane.
Certainly not certain! There are many other tradeoffs that can easily be made to get more performance WO new engines, such as using better fuel and suping up the old engines reducing wind area, etc...Just a clarification: I'm not advocating an up-engined Hs 129 for this thread, but a better and more capable aircraft all together. Hence also a bit bigger, talk size of Fw 187, not size of Whirlwind.
'Certainly', not 'probably'
You can certainly make more capable ground attack planes but where is the "sweet spot" between a 300sq ft wing, 5000kg (ish) 1400hp plane and a 375-450 (ish) sq ft, 6000-7500kg, 1700-2400hp airplane. Getting into early Douglas DB-7 Territory here (P&W R-1830 engines) and Bf 110s.
Clip the wing on a 110 and replace the DB engines with BMW 132s?
Are BMW 132s non-strategic?
Was some of the BMW 132 production capacity shifted over to BMW 801 Production?
You can take a Mercury engine and change the supercharger gear and go from 725hp for take-off to 830hp but that changes the FTH from 840hp/14,000ft to 890hp/6000ft which is certainly better for ground attack. But is the extra power going to increase the performance of the bigger plane with the larger diameter radials and the extra weight/larger wing?
What are you looking for from the "better" Hs 129? Is an extra 30kph going to do it? or do you need 50-60kph
There are many other tradeoffs that can easily be made to get more performance WO new engines, such as using better fuel and suping up the old engines reducing wind area, etc...
Problem is the field performance.Sweet spot is already at 300 sq ft wing. Two 'normal' radials = 1700+ HP total at 1st (talk low level Mercuries, or short-stroke 9 cyls of German origin).
Bf 110 is a no-go, IMO. Even with clipped wings.
Well, they built around 28,000 Argus engines according to Wiki, if you want to significantly Argus production you need to come up with something for Arado 96 trainers, the FW 189, and the Sibel 204. Maybe you can come up with a 450-600hp 9 cylinder radial. Save 10-20 % ?By the time Do 17 was being phased out, the BMW 132 is well behind the curve. Have the 132 (or Bramo 323) production receive support instead of the Argus V12s. Once France is conquered, the G&R 14N can be considered as an upgrade.
Back to #1. Getting better payload out of small crappy airstrips requires not just power. Getting back into small crappy airstrips often requires a bigger wing.I'm looking for a better payload capacity, that can also include the rear gunner. So both the substantial guns' firepower can be carried + some bombs, etc.
Speed is not that relevant.
Not worse than when compared with bomb-toting Bf 109s of 1940?Problem is the field performance.
Well, they built around 28,000 Argus engines according to Wiki, if you want to significantly Argus production you need to come up with something for Arado 96 trainers, the FW 189, and the Sibel 204. Maybe you can come up with a 450-600hp 9 cylinder radial. Save 10-20 % ?
Back to #1. Getting better payload out of small crappy airstrips requires not just power. Getting back into small crappy airstrips often requires a bigger wing.
That Ford flat head would breath better with three Stromberg 97s.A couple of Ford flat-heads with 4 bbl carbs, dualies and crossover pipes? Chop and channel the fuselage too? Acid dip the chassis?
The idea is to get something better, If the 109 bombers can't take off you need something that will (Hs 123s, Hs 129s, Fw 189s, etc)Not worse than when compared with bomb-toting Bf 109s of 1940?
I'm kinda' foggy on when those showed up. Then again, I'm just kinda' foggy.That Ford flat head would breath better with three Stromberg 97s.
Tomo, if this enhanced Hs129 project is early enough, perhaps BMW could provide the 139 radial as an engine source?By the time Do 17 was being phased out, the BMW 132 is well behind the curve. Have the 132 (or Bramo 323) production receive support instead of the Argus V12s. Once France is conquered, the G&R 14N can be considered as an upgrade.
Depends on the year and size - Ford's flatheads used Zenith, Ball & Ball, Bendix (type 97), Carter and Holley type 94, in addition to Stromberg, over the years.I'm kinda' foggy on when those showed up. Then again, I'm just kinda' foggy.
Depends on the year and size - Ford's flatheads used Zenith, Ball & Ball, Bendix (type 97), Carter and Holley type 94, in addition to Stromberg, over the years.
The BMW 139 was with even worse reliability problems than the early 801s, due to the in-built heart failure so to speak.Tomo, if this enhanced Hs129 project is early enough, perhaps BMW could provide the 139 radial as an engine source?