The Lancaster as a potential nuclear bomber in 1945

[RCAFson]

I keep seeing Okinawa mentioned.

We all realize that the missions were flown from Tinian Island, a round trip of nearly 3,000 miles to and from target, right?

Sorry but that's not true. Enola Gay was Tinian-> Hiroshima -> Tinian but Bockscar was Tinian->Nagasaki-> Okinawa (Bockscar was forced to divert to Okinawa)

There's no particular reason that all missions couldn't have been planned for Tinian->target->Okinawa.

 

[RCAFson]

Ta dah! There it is! Evidence! Oops, no, still hasn't done the calculations... Is it because you don't know how to calculate specific air range from figures provided? Wikipedia isn't going to help you, you're gonna have to research it yourself. Look, the figures are all there in the paperwork, even under tropical conditions.

See post 13:
The Lancaster as a potential nuclear bomber in 1945

 

[nuuumannn]

Let's look at those figures you provided.

A Lancaster loaded with a FAT MAN can accommodate two aux tanks in the bomb bay and their is sufficient weight capacity, at 72000lb TO weight for another ~5000lb of fuel or ~700IG, if custom (rather than Wellington) aux tanks are used, however even if we max out the fuel load at 3000IG we get at range of 2820 miles at .94AMPG (tropical).

Firstly, a Lancaster could not carry a Fat Man bomb.

Secondly, custom tanks? Fiction.

Thirdly, at this range and load, the Lancaster would be cruising at less than 200 mph at an altitude of 15,000 feet. As I stated in my article, Short Stirlings were being shot down over Germany three years earlier at this performance.

Delusional rubbish.

 

[nuuumannn]

See post 13:
The Lancaster as a potential nuclear bomber in 1945

Yup, and if you continue to read below that, you'll see the following:

This still only gives us a range of 1,667.56 miles on a fuel capacity of 1,774 gallons. Again, less than what I calculated above, although speed has increased, as stated in the report, with a corresponding loss of range.

Read, read, read...

Yet more evidence you are not reading what you are posting. Now, where are YOUR calculations based on the figures provided?

 

[RCAFson]

Yup, and if you continue to read below that, you'll see the following:

nuuumannn said:
This still only gives us a range of 1,667.56 miles on a fuel capacity of 1,774 gallons. Again, less than what I calculated above, although speed has increased, as stated in the report, with a corresponding loss of range.


Read, read, read...

Yet more evidence you are not reading what you are posting. Now, where are YOUR calculations based on the figures provided?

It must be painfully obvious now, to anyone reading this thread, that you don't know what you're talking about. Where does the fuel capacity figure of 1774IG come from? The Tirpitz raiders were carrying a 12000lb Tallboy and 2560IG (2160IG and 400IG) of fuel. You've made a major error somewhere which explains why you are so lost regarding Lancaster range.

 

[GrauGeist]

Sorry but that's not true. Enola Gay was Tinian-> Hiroshima -> Tinian but Bockscar was Tinian->Nagasaki-> Okinawa (Bockscar was forced to divert to Okinawa)

There's no particular reason that all missions couldn't have been planned for Tinian->target->Okinawa.

Not sure how the picture coukd be painted any clearer for you to understand.

ALL of the 509th Composite Group's operations (atomic and conventional practice) were conducted from Tinian because Okinawa was within reach of the home islands and experienced attacks - Tinian was just out of reach of Japanese elements that made it a secure location to store, assemble and deploy atomic weapons.

And because bombers of the 509th landed at Okinawa means absolutely nothing.

 

[nuuumannn]

You've made a major error somewhere which explains why you are so lost regarding Lancaster range.

DO THE MATHS.

Here: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Lancaster/Lancaster_I_PD435_Performance.pdf

 

[RCAFson]

Let's look at those figures you provided.



Firstly, a Lancaster could not carry a Fat Man bomb.

Secondly, custom tanks? Fiction.

Thirdly, at this range and load, the Lancaster would be cruising at less than 200 mph at an altitude of 15,000 feet. As I stated in my article, Short Stirlings were being shot down over Germany three years earlier at this performance.

Delusional rubbish.

I provided a properly cited source to show that it can carry a FAT MAN bomb.

All the Silverplate mods were fiction until they were done. The Lancaster bomb bay is 33ft by 38in by 61in and there's plenty of room for aux tanks fore and aft of either A bomb design.

Tinian->Japan->Okinawa/Tinian is mostly an overwater flight safe from AA or fighters, which is why even the B-29 flew a low-high-low mission profile. Seriously, you didn't know that?

 

[nuuumannn]

It must be painfully obvious now,

The only painfully obvious thing is that you are not reading what's put in front of you. I did it just before. Even your own arguments in favour of your case are shown to be contradictory and you are being reminded of this.

 

[nuuumannn]

I provided a properly cited source to show that it can carry a FAT MAN bomb.

No, you didn't. It was explained to you why not. More evidence you aren't reading what's being posted.

 

[RCAFson]

No, you didn't. It was explained to you why not. More evidence you aren't reading what's being posted.

Sorry, but you don't make the rules regarding evidence. I provided a properly cited source and you've provided your opinion...

 

[nuuumannn]

I provided a properly cited source and you've provided your opinion

You can't even get right what you yourself are using as evidence. Read the source material again.

 

[RCAFson]

DO THE MATHS.

Here: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Lancaster/Lancaster_I_PD435_Performance.pdf

The above states .95 AMPG at mean mission weight of 66500lb = 2850 miles with 3000IG of fuel. In fact mean mission weight would be less than 66500lb but this is sufficient to show that the mission is possible.

 

[RCAFson]

Not sure how the picture coukd be painted any clearer for you to understand.

ALL of the 509th Composite Group's operations (atomic and conventional practice) were conducted from Tinian because Okinawa was within reach of the home islands and experienced attacks - Tinian was just out of reach of Japanese elements that made it a secure location to store, assemble and deploy atomic weapons.

And because bombers of the 509th landed at Okinawa means absolutely nothing.

How does a Tinian ->Target -> Okinawa A-bomb mission expose Tinian to attack?

 

[GrauGeist]

Dear God...

Ok, let me try this again.

Okinawa could not be used as a staging base for the atomic missions. It was not secure from attack.

Tinian was selected as the base of operations for the Silverplate operations because it was nearly out of reach of Japanese attack.

And again, just because a B-29 landed at Okinawa does not mean a Lancaster could do the mission from Tinian - that literally makes no sense.
So in summary:
Tinian HAD to be the base of operations because it WAS OUT IF REACH OF JAPANESE ATTACK.
Okinawa was UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK until the end of the war nd was NOT secure for atomic weapon operations.

 

[RCAFson]

Dear God...

Ok, let me try this again.

Okinawa could not be used as a staging base for the atomic missions. It was not secure from attack.

Tinian was selected as the base of operations for the Silverplate operations because it was nearly out of reach of Japanese attack.

And again, just because a B-29 landed at Okinawa does not mean a Lancaster could do the mission from Tinian - that literally makes no sense.
So in summary:
Tinian HAD to be the base of operations because it WAS OUT IF REACH OF JAPANESE ATTACK.
Okinawa was UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK until the end of the war nd was NOT secure for atomic weapon operations.

I'm not sure how landing an aircraft, after weapon release, at Okinawa effects the security of a base on Tinian.

Okinawa was used as a staging base for one of the two missions, which made a lot of sense at the time.

Tinian-> Hiroshima->Okinawa is about 2200 miles and somewhat less for Tinian-> Nagasaki->Okinawa

 

[GrauGeist]

No...wrong.
Absolutely NO Silverplate missions originated from Okinawa. Period.

All 15 conventional pumpkin bomb test missions were from Tinian.

Both atomic missions were from Tinian.

 

[Dash119]

Okay, hunkering down in my bunker here anticipating the incoming... And not debating any of the other issues on these 20 pages, but ;
Given that Tibbets demonstrated that he was willing to take some operational risks with the Bockscar mission. If the only way to do the mission(s) is Tinian -> Target -> Okinawa, doesn't he move ahead? No staging on Okinawa, just an empty bomber returning after the mission.

 

[ThomasP]

Don't know if this will help any:

Maybe you could do a guppy bomb bay conversion, it would look kind of like the belly fuel tank bulge modification on the EE Lightning F.6?

 

[yulzari]

Gentlemen. This all simply boils down to whether the Lancaster, with reasonable modifications, could act as a 1945 nuclear bomber. Not what would be the best nor issues of nationality nor if it were actually considered for it.

Perusing the posts I conclude that it could. The B29 would be better but that is not the OP. If there were no better choices it could do the task.