The Paranormal, Unusual Happenings?

[mikewint]

Paul, I dearly wish I lived closer 'cause we'd be going to that ghostly workshop. I am not fool enough to think/believe that I know all the workings of the universe and I firmly believe that the universe is not only queerer than I imagine but that it is queerer than I can imagine.
All that being said the universe is not exempt from the Laws of Thermodynamics.
#1. Energy can neither be created or destroyed though it can change form and flow from place to place
#2 Generally refered to as ENTROPY. The second law refers to a wide variety of processes, reversible and irreversible. All natural processes are irreversible. Reversible processes are a convenient theoretical fiction and do not occur in nature. Thus the entropy of a system always increases. Local energy expenditures can reverse entropy for a time but only with the constant expenditure of energy. You, mind/consciousness/spirit? are a highy organized state and are only maintained by energy expenditure. Eventually those systems (also subject to entropy) fail and the organized state ceases. A ghost/spirit would be an organized state. What supplies the energy? Where does it cme from? and how does it reverse entropy?
While one cannot prove a negative Occams razor favors the simplest explanation. Out of 2.5 million VC/NVA ghosts one would expect at least one haunting

 

[daveT]

A spirited past: Ghost hunt in Prairie Mississippi searches for evidence to prove we are not alone

"I couldn't go in it right now, no ma'am," Linda Callahan sat shaking her head dramatically from side to side. Her attentive audience, about 25 men and women in a ragged circle of chairs, are huddled by camp light at the entrance of a World War II-era concrete bunker in Prairie. The night outside, dark and waiting, is still.
Everyone knows Linda is talking about the crumbling remains of the Gulf Ordnance Munitions Plant -- a place reputed to be rich in paranormal activity. A place they're about to explore.
Linda recounts a chilling phone call from her sister, Sammie, many years ago, when both Aberdeen women worked weekend security shifts at the near-empty plant, which was then a facility for Walker Manufacturing.
"Linda, if you're there, please pick up the phone! Please, Oh, God, help me!" Sammie's hysterical voice rattled from her sister's answering machine that Saturday. A terrified Sammie, alone at the plant, was adamant that she had encountered ghostly visitors -- a wounded Confederate soldier and a nurse.
"I will always believe that she saw it," Linda said of her sister, who passed away in 2005. Sammie's detailed description of the gray coat, brass buttons, black shoes ... of the nurse's old-fashioned white uniform, with cuffs and white hat ... were as vivid as the bandage around the soldier's head, stained with blood. Tales of "spooky" experiences abound about the plant, and Linda had had her own unsettling experiences.
"Take my word for it, you just knew ... I don't know what it is, and I don't want to find out for myself, but I believe it with all my heart," she stressed.
Rich past
Those gathered at the bunker have come for a ghost hunting experience led by the Mystic Mississippi Paranormal Society. As they listen, each wonders what the hours ahead hold in store. The sisters'' story is only one in a long line of eerie accounts spawned since the Ordnance Plant was rapidly built in 1942, on land that had been a Civil War battlefield and burial ground.
"That may be the main source of the haunting," says Terry Sweeney. He and his wife, Jennifer, co-founded Mystic Para, as it's called, in 2008. The Amory couple and another society member, Beth Vennerstrom, will lead the evening's investigation.
"This place has such a rich history; it's fascinating. I'm surprised more people don't know about it," Terry remarked.
That anyone does is thanks in large part to Brent Coleman, an investigator with the Monroe County Sheriff's Department. He has chronicled a history, and is working on a more expansive book, about the remarkable plant about 15 minutes from West Point that once incorporated more than 6,000 acres, contained 27 miles of railroad track, and employed about 7,000 people.
From 1942 to 1945, the sprawling complex, complete with dormitories, churned out ammunition around the clock for the American war effort. After the war, some of the structures were home to a string of other manufacturing businesses.
Like Callahan, Coleman has come to the bunker at the Sweeney's request, to say a few words before the ghost hunting begins.
"As an investigator, I keep an open mind," he tells the group in a level, no-nonsense voice. "I can tell you that in my research for the history of this place, I talked to a lot of people. I wasn't after the unknown, or the mysterious; I was after the history, but I heard a lot of stories. I can tell you that I have interviewed several people who worked here in the ''80s who have very distinct memories of mysterious incidents."
Mystic Para
The Sweeney's have investigated the Prairie plant several times. Their purpose in inviting the public in for a glimpse of an investigation is two-fold. "We're not only doing this to show what we do, but also to get people interested in the history of this place, to help raise money for a historic marker here," explained Jennifer.
In the course of neutral research and investigation of potential paranormal activity in private residences and historic sites, Mystic Para employs a variety of tools to prove -- and disprove -- unusual phenomena.
Jennifer, a customer service representative, and Terry, an upholsterer, and the team use night vision security cameras, EVP (electric voice phenomenon) recorders, tri-field meters, an extensive DVR system, digital temperature recorders, an experimental communication device called a "Frank's Box" (sometimes called a Ghost Box) and several other instruments.
"We strive for the highest level of professionalism, and our main goal is to help those in need," stated Jennifer, the case manager. There is never a charge for an investigation. "This is what we do. We're out there searching for evidence of paranormal activity and, at the Ordnance, we often find it."
On the hunt
As the bunker group splits into smaller teams that will rotate to three different sites on the plant grounds, Jennifer cautions matter-of-factly: "You will stay with your group; do not wander off. If you feel something that makes you uncomfortable, do not run. Come to your guide." She and Terry are careful not to promise paranormal activity.
Structures still standing on the property are far apart and forlorn. At every opportunity, nature has reasserted herself. Where roofs are missing, trees topping 20 feet and more grow inside, surrounded by brush and thorns. Vines as thick as a wrist snake through windows that long ago lost their glass. Stars twinkle through networks of steel trusses. The atmosphere is expectant, but not ominous. The only illumination comes from the three-quarter moon above, and flashlights.
In the three-story husk of the most visible landmark visitors see as they enter the property, one group spreads throughout the second floor, listening intently for recognizable words through the white noise of the "Frank's Box" Jennifer has set on the ground.
Farther away, in a debris-strewn hallway of another building, Beth's team is measuring air temperature and looking for disturbances in electro-magnetic readings. One participant, Barbara, volunteers to go deeper into the dark hallway, to sit quietly, to be receptive to any sign of a presence.
Gail Barnes of Golden is convinced something is there.
"I grew up with ghosts; my grandmother's house in Amory had ghosts," says Gail calmly. "In the hallway, I felt I saw something behind her," she said later. "I saw or felt different people and saw some movements. As far as I could tell, everything was very friendly, nothing threatening."
At a third site about a half mile away, another team undergoes what may be the most testing of the night -- a solo experience in a long, dark munitions tunnel where a dominant spirit, "Philip," is said to have made his presence known in the past. Infrared cameras record as each person dons headphones and is shown how to work specialized devices before being left on their own. One woman is sure she heard footsteps approaching behind her in the tunnel and ends her session abruptly.
There are no special effects, no actors, no attempts to make something happen. As the Mystic Para leaders tutor, there are no theatrics -- only an objective sharing of information, with bits of history about one of Mississippi's most interesting and mysterious locations.
"This is a wonderful place to investigate," said Jennifer. "We never expected it to be as active as it is. ... It's not always as glamorous as it seems on television, but it is fun, spooky and very intriguing."
"It's hard to believe people don't remember this place," said Terry. "But maybe that's why the ghosts are here. Maybe they want us to remember."

 

[mikewint]

Anecdotal stories are evidence of nothing. And group perception even worse as suggestion enters the mix. The group is well primed that this is a "HAUNTED" place and the leaders "guides" provide the seeds of suggestion and off we go. Once again we deal with human perception and a puff of white vapor suddenly becomes Abe Lincoln. A Rorschach ink blot is a blot of ink bilaterally symetrical then add human perception and suddenly we have Bats, Butterflies, Foxes, My father killing my mother with a knife, etc. Everyone thinks that they SEE what is there but we all PERCEIVE what is there.
Most people understand what a mirage is and how it works but no aount of knowledge removes the PERCEPTION of water ON the road ahead. Our brains have been trained that light travels in a straight line and knowledge cannot remove that training. Light trveling from air into water and out again bends (refraction). Put a pencil in water and look at it. Since we KNOW light is straight we PERCEIVE a bent pencil. Put a black dot on a card. Hold it in front of your nose and move it toward your face slowly. Near your face the dot vanishes. The light from the dot is now falling on the fovea of the eye where there are no rods or cones, your blind spot but because of PERCEPTION no one ever PERCEIVES this "hole" in your vision.
Check out movie "bloopers" you will be amazed at all the things you saw but never perceived as you watched the movie

 

[meatloaf109]

I agree.
Stories are just that, and when you have an "Investigator" that has an agenda, well, the evidence usually falls short. I am not impressed with EVP's because of the wide variety of electronic interference that can occur. I am not impressed with "Orbs"; this is dust. Videos posted on Youtube? Nope. Too many idiots out there with computer programs that do a wide variety of editing and special effects. So-called "Ghost Hunters" on T.V., Not a chance. (Ever notice that after the first season, they found "ghosts" everywhere?)
There is only one thing that will change a skeptic to a believer, and that is undeniable first hand experience. And sometimes not even that. I am no fool, I always try to go for a rational explanation. Houses settle, things go "bump" in the night. When I heard the workshop start up every night around 3:00 am, I would go to the door and listen. As soon as my hand would touch the knob, it would stop. I tried a variety of times, (as in, my first thought was that it was a well pump or something like that), so one night I waited for 20 minutes, one night 30, and so on.
The odds of the mechanical device, if that is what it was, stopping every time I grabbed the doorknob, are astronomical. The door, oddly enough, would be closed every night when I went to check. I propped it open a couple of times with some old paint cans, but they would be pushed aside and the door firmly shut. My friend and I finally took the door down, thinking that we could catch what ever it was easier, but, no. We sat on my couch and watched some old movies with a bottle of cheap Canadian whiskey and waited. When the noise started early the next morning and we went out of my room and headed down the hall, they stopped.
I remain puzzled to this day. While I never felt threatened or anything, I will admit that the hairs on the back of my neck would stand up every time I went to investigate. We decided that a "live and let live(!)" policy was best, and for the rest of my time there, I left whatever it was to it's fun.

 

[mikewint]

Paul, while I do believe every word of your story, like all anecdotal accout it lacks precise details. I know that sound is a form of energy. Air molecules haveto be set in motion in a logitudinal wave motion. That requires that they be compressed and rareified by some physical object vibrating. Thik of a tuning fork as it moves back and forth. Objects (air molecules in this case) can only be moved be moved in one of two ways: direct physical contact or field effect forces (electromagnetism - gravity). Gravity only acts down so that leaves an electromagnetic field. But air is a non-cnductor (15K to 20K volts per inch) so the electromagnetic field could do no work on the air molecules. Therefore something corporeal is vibrating and something is supplying energy to cause the motion.
I find it very difficult to comprehend a non-corporeal entity weilding a non-corporeal tool setting air molecules in motion.
I can see a number of approaches starting with cutting off ALL electrical power, recording devices with directional microphones, small real-time video cameras, ect. Last of all remember that there is a total of 2.5 million dollars in rewards out there for verifiable paranormal phenom

 

[Airframes]

I claim the $2.5 million !

 

[GrauGeist]

I claim the $2.5 million !

Noway!! That's been Photoshopped!

 

[javlin]

While I am not a deeply religious man in practice I am a believer in God.I have for myself come to the realization that this body I inhabit is only that and I will go somewhere from here.Now that leads me to understand then that there are more dimensions then what my 5 senses can percieve and they probably encompass all about me.I like Dave I have had premonitions and usually for bad events and one for a good event which I misplaced as bad.

In 1990/91 or so I had a lady by the name of Betty White over here in the US from GB on visa do a reading on me.I was required to handle a normal deck of cards for a period of time which upon handing back to her some fell out.I was about to place them back in the deck which she quickly made me stop and said those tell a different story.I never ever in this reading said yes or no to coroborate any of the info!!The woman sat there and talk about so many people around me I was floored some people I had never talked to anyone but my wife about!Ms. White sat there at one point(65yrs. old maybe) her hands together saying I see an older woman doing this rubbing hands together and it's like she is warm.I swear before God now as my witness she looked the spitt'in imagine of my mother in the kitchen on Sunday afternoon cooking dinner sitting under the one a/c vent in the kitchen rubbing a damp washrag.Ms. White then informed this woman is about to to become ill and some will think it's time(coma/articical resp. 2yrs later) but she will survive and she did.Ms White stated a man by the name of Uncle Bob is watching over I never knew an Uncle Bob but I mentioned it to my mother later that evening.The response that I received from my Mother when I mentioned him was almost a quote"that no good SOB" and my mother went off the handle about me seeing a median.The cards that fell she stated was something that was over and I needed to just let it go.So that brings me back to Uncle Bob who was he? and which dimension was he from?

You see my mother saw a median in the sense by an Indian back in the late 30's/40's who told her three things that all came true and I can only remember two ATTM.1) She would marry twice which she did.The Indian never said two different men just twice JP first and blessed by the church later with vows again.2) She would live to raise seven children which she did,two stillborns and three miscarriages would of been twelve of us kids.

Then you have NDE which is another story in itself like how did the woman see the slipper on the N side of the Hospital on the ledge when her room was on the S side ? I beg to differ to think that this one planet is all there is when one only has to walk out his door and look up we are but a speck and really have not started to scratch the surface of knowledge.

 

[meatloaf109]

Paul, while I do believe every word of your story, like all anecdotal accout it lacks precise details. I know that sound is a form of energy. Air molecules haveto be set in motion in a logitudinal wave motion. That requires that they be compressed and rareified by some physical object vibrating. Thik of a tuning fork as it moves back and forth. Objects (air molecules in this case) can only be moved be moved in one of two ways: direct physical contact or field effect forces (electromagnetism - gravity). Gravity only acts down so that leaves an electromagnetic field. But air is a non-cnductor (15K to 20K volts per inch) so the electromagnetic field could do no work on the air molecules. Therefore something corporeal is vibrating and something is supplying energy to cause the motion.
I find it very difficult to comprehend a non-corporeal entity weilding a non-corporeal tool setting air molecules in motion.
I can see a number of approaches starting with cutting off ALL electrical power, recording devices with directional microphones, small real-time video cameras, ect. Last of all remember that there is a total of 2.5 million dollars in rewards out there for verifiable paranormal phenom

Oh, I can dig it, my friend!
I did not have any real scientific things at my beck and call at the time. I just used my common sense to make the best of what I was presented with at the time. I was broke, and living day to day on unemployment, and the good graces of a good friend. I can provide you with his, and several others testimony, but, as both you and I have stated, ancillary testimony means nothing.
So, therefore, we are at an impasse.

 

[daveT]

My Ghost photooooo

 

[gumbyk]

Whats that? - three light blobs...

 

[mikewint]

Javlin, Mediums are experts at reading both verbal clues and BODY language. The same physiological changes picked-up by a lie detector can be seen visually by a keen observer and as we are all human our pasts share similarities. Add the internet and public records and mediums have hit the mother lode
Paul, truely spoken. I have no explanation but Occams razor leads me to believe in the simplest explanation rather than postulating a spirit trapped in a workshop condemned to use power tools at 3AM every night. Objects fall because invisible fairy pixies cannot tolerate unsupported masses. Remove the support and they (pixies) rush out and pull the unsupported object downward.
DaveT another quite typical blob of ??? A Rorschach test in white.
I have my own ghost blob...see him trapped in the middle

 

[meatloaf109]

Why is he upside down?

 

[Airframes]

Noway!! That's been Photoshopped!

No, it's a genuine photo Dave. It's actually Karl's face (rochie) reflected in the glass walls surrounding the display in the control tower at Elvington.
I didn't notice it until viewing the photos later!

 

[GrauGeist]

No, it's a genuine photo Dave. It's actually Karl's face (rochie) reflected in the glass walls surrounding the display in the control tower at Elvington.
I didn't notice it until viewing the photos later!

But is Karl ok with being a ghost?

 

[Airframes]

Yeah, he's sort of got used to it !

 

[javlin]

Javlin, Mediums are experts at reading both verbal clues and BODY language. The same physiological changes picked-up by a lie detector can be seen visually by a keen observer and as we are all human our pasts share similarities. Add the internet and public records and mediums have hit the mother lode
Paul, truely spoken. I have no explanation but Occams razor leads me to believe in the simplest explanation rather than postulating a spirit trapped in a workshop condemned to use power tools at 3AM every night. Objects fall because invisible fairy pixies cannot tolerate unsupported masses. Remove the support and they (pixies) rush out and pull the unsupported object downward.
DaveT another quite typical blob of ??? A Rorschach test in white.

I have my own ghost blob...see him trapped in the middle

Have to disagree Mike.The fact an Uncle who committed suicide was never mentioned to me was revealed was abit of a shock to me though not at the initial moment for I thought the lady was caught.Read the post Mike 1990/91 way way before the internet was as it is today so I shoot that one also.The lady also brought up something about a nephew on my wifes side I had never met was 3yrs old attm and lived in Florida.The readinfg lasted I guess 45-60 minutes but again more talk about people around me With Names and of course some without.

 

[gumbyk]

How much of what she said was incorrect?

We tend to want things to be correct, so only recall what fits and forget the rest. Its called confirmation bias.

My mother was told that I was going to have a daughter - well, I have a son...

 

[mikewint]

Furthest back I could go was 2009 when the US sucicide rate was 20/100,000 not bad odds. If questioned she could have covered any number of ways, good friend, like an uncle, sudden death, suspicious death, etc. Like I said humns tend to have similiar backrounds and a skilled con-artist can ferret these out. As to the internet commercial ISPs began to emerge in the mid 1980s however baring that avenue there were things called libraries that contained all kinds of info, as well as courts police and the good od US census. This is the womans JOB she does it well or she does not eat

 

[javlin]

How much of what she said was incorrect?

We tend to want things to be correct, so only recall what fits and forget the rest. Its called confirmation bias.

My mother was told that I was going to have a daughter - well, I have a son...

She was right about my mother a couple years later she went into the hospital was on a respirator and in a semi-coma(?) for two weeks.My brother and I was given power to end life assisted living and were about 48 hrs away maybe shorter for ending the life assisted process.The doctors stated that once the body stops breathing on its own it has a hard time coming back,my mother recovered to to die of lung cancer 4years later.She was right in one aspect about my job in a very simple thing but wrong in another unless I get offered a transfer to europe which I do not see.She was right my brother would divorce a witch of a woman but she was wrong about the nephew to date.If I had to give a percent she was 30-40% tops but she also mentioned most anything I tell you can be changed for God gives us freewill.Thats an important aspect otherwise we are all preordained which does meet will with my beliefs.I would surmize that at times we are presented a fork in the road and we choose and was the choice correct or wrong?The deal with the nephew I had never met hinged on the father taking a job in MS then a chain of events would occur for him.I did not even know that my Wife's brother was even looking for a job in MS till some months later he finally took a job with Harris Corporation out FL doing Defense contracts.All I can say is I have a couple other readings out of curiousity a few years after that none compared even marginally and I have had none since for 20 yrs now really little interest.

She also mentioned I would have three children I have one but also my marriage to my wife now would not last; it is now 28 yrs.When she mentioned that I felt even more determined to prove her wrong and here again free will.My main point is that if one just peel back the layer just alittle bit to another dimension then house of cards begins to fall.