The thread formally known as the P-39 vs. ze Germans thread.
- Thread starter CORSNING
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Ever had a student who insisted on being taught to fly in his dad's Comanche 250, Mooney M20, or Cessna 210? Back in the day before insurance became prohibitive, I've had that experience. You don't hop in and blast off into the ozone on a first lesson under those circumstances like you might in a Cherokee or a Cessna 150. In fact you don't even get into the air at all until they've demonstrated a thorough knowledge of all the controls and instruments in the cockpit and have mastered checklists, engine and propeller operation and ground handling, to include high speed taxiing and accelerate - stops. Sort of like military flight training.
Similarly, beginning drivers should learn clutching and shifting in a large empty parking lot or other no-threat environment and have that down to an automatic reflex before tackling traffic or driving at speed. Maneuvering courses using painted parking space markings and pylons are a good way to build confidence safely. This is how it was done before the teacher's unions started objecting to scheduling road lessons outside the school day when parking lots were available.
Cheers,
Wes
I had a '73, "the Sexy European" 2.6 that a previous owner had tweaked up a bit. I had to set the idle kind of high to keep the plugs from fouling, and he had cobbled the throttle linkage such that the second pair of barrels in the carb came on all at once, getting rubber and making you appreciate your headrest. A GTO, it went through Gas, Tires, and Oil in prodigiou$ quantitie$, and was downright treacherous in winter, but a blast the rest of the time.
My brothers called it "the Crapi".
Cheers,
Wes
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I learned to drive in a 50 Ford, F1. Worn out synchros, didn't just have to learn how to handle a clutch, but double clutching on every shift up or down. Brakes weren't much either. It taught me to always plan ahead, and become more involved with the vehicle.
I taught both of my daughters to drive straight sticks, and I think they're better drivers because of it. It did mean I had to replace two clutches in one car, but after making the guilty party help me replace the 2nd clutch, her clutch handling skills showed remarkable improvement.
I taught both of my daughters to drive straight sticks, and I think they're better drivers because of it. It did mean I had to replace two clutches in one car, but after making the guilty party help me replace the 2nd clutch, her clutch handling skills showed remarkable improvement.
Hello XBe02Drvr,
I guess the method of learning is really determined by what your goal is.
Outside of an airfield, I don't see a way to get up to highway speeds in a manual shift car in a no-threat environment.
Those are a little hard to come by in the civilian world especially when you consider how many kids learn to drive.
My Daughter is a pretty good example of the current system.
She doesn't know how to drive a manual shift car though she is interested in learning.
She DOES however know enough to be able to navigate safely in the metro area and even back and forth to College which is a couple hours away.
I believe she has accomplished the goal of learning how to drive.
Is it a handicap that she doesn't know how to drive a manual shift car? Not if you consider that all she has at the moment is a mini van with an automatic transmission. In time she will learn just as I expect her to learn performance driving.
My Wife learned how to drive a manual shift car in a single weekend. By the end of the weekend, it still wasn't pleasant to ride in the car with her driving, but she was getting around without issues. (Her regular car was going in the shop and we had just bought the car with the manual transmission.)
Your 4 Barrel 2.6 Capri reminds me of trying to tune the old Holley carburetors. Vacuum or Manual secondaries.... Which is better? Playing with springs and Accelerator Pump cams. That was an awful long time ago for me.
Hello BiffF15,
I believe mine was also a 1976 Capri. For a sporty car, I believe the 2000cc engine was the better of the two but although my Dad was a mechanic, I don't think he was really trying to hotrod this car. (In his spare time, he was tuning muscle cars for people is what I was told a few years back. It would explain why when I was a kid so many folks came by with different cars.)
The Capri is one of the cars I really enjoyed.
I found a really good example in Sierra Vista, AZ a couple decades ago but just admired and didn't offer to buy it. It was much nicer looking than the one I had.
Another car I really enjoyed was a VW Golf I had as a rental in the Netherlands. It was just plain agile. In a week I got so used to the car that when I got back to my Mustang, I had problems with the clutch for the next month and I had been driving the Mustang for years.
- Ivan.
Why would you want to learn highway speeds in a no-threat environment?
Where did I learn? On the Autobahn in a manual 5 speed 5 series BMW.
I'm not a fan of the parents teaching kids how to drive thing. Maybe that explains why there are so many terrible drivers here.
I had to go through a strict classroom and practical course that took several months and included a specific number of hours in day driving, night driving, city driving, rural driving, rain driving, winter driving, autobahn driving, and various parking techniques.
The driving test lasted over an hour, and involved a hell of a lot more than driving around the block like they do here.
Where did I learn? On the Autobahn in a manual 5 speed 5 series BMW.
I'm not a fan of the parents teaching kids how to drive thing. Maybe that explains why there are so many terrible drivers here.
I had to go through a strict classroom and practical course that took several months and included a specific number of hours in day driving, night driving, city driving, rural driving, rain driving, winter driving, autobahn driving, and various parking techniques.
The driving test lasted over an hour, and involved a hell of a lot more than driving around the block like they do here.
fubar57
General
......and this concludes our thread on why the P-39 far out-shone the Luftwaffe. Thank you....I'll be here all week...don't forget to tip your waitress
This is a thread about the P-39 vs. ze Germans?
And on that note, all the off-topic but highly contagious postings are moved to this thread...
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fubar57
General
Kind of remind you of a certain bassackward fighter plane we all love to hate?
Cheers,
Wes
This one had four separate barrels operating in pairs and didn't look like any of the factory options pictured in Chilton's or Haynes. Don't think it was OEM. It sat on a shallow riser/adapter on top of a manifold that looked like it was configured for a two barrel. Somebody's cob job.
Cheers,
Wes
Didn't know Ford was doing F1 in '50! Thought that started mid '60s with Cosworth and Lotus. Love those Hewland crashboxes! Our over the road busses had Spicer crashboxes, but the city ones had Allison two-speed automatics.
Cheers,
Wes
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That's just it. You don't get up to highway speeds in the parking lot, and you don't leave the parking lot until clutch and shift are more or less second nature. Get the fumbling and the anxiety out of the way first, then tackle higher speeds and traffic. You can build confidence with slow speed pylon patterns of increasing complexity. Like taking a flight student out of a busy airbase to practice landing patterns at an outlying field. That's the way I learned and that's the way I taught. It works.
Cheers,
Wes
In 1950, a Ford F1 was nothing but a common every day pickup truck . They started calling them F100s in 1953.
Shortround6
Major General
Trouble is nowadays finding the empty parking lot. When I (and some of my siblings) were learning we lived in a state with"Blue laws" and most stores were closed on sunday. It wasn't hard to find an totally empty parking lot one day a week without learning to drive after midnight. In the winter you could practice "snow" driving in the unplowed lots. Slides/ skids and what not.
Nowadays the the lots are in use (at least somewhat) 7 days a week and from morning to well after dark.
I used to love stick shifts. But after driving my wife in and out of Manhattan for a few years (and a few other high traffic density areas) Stick shifts may not be practical for some people, I was glad we had automatics when it could take you 2-3 hours to drive 60 miles on a multilane highway. 2 hours was a very good day.
If I lived in an area with snow and didn't have to face a long commute I might still prefer a stick shift as I felt I had more control in snow. Most of cars I had were rear wheel drive and you could down shift to slow down without loosing the steering. If the rear end fishtailed a bit it was easy to correct for.
There were fewer cars on the road too, so learning by doing on public roads may have been easier.
Nowadays the the lots are in use (at least somewhat) 7 days a week and from morning to well after dark.
I used to love stick shifts. But after driving my wife in and out of Manhattan for a few years (and a few other high traffic density areas) Stick shifts may not be practical for some people, I was glad we had automatics when it could take you 2-3 hours to drive 60 miles on a multilane highway. 2 hours was a very good day.
If I lived in an area with snow and didn't have to face a long commute I might still prefer a stick shift as I felt I had more control in snow. Most of cars I had were rear wheel drive and you could down shift to slow down without loosing the steering. If the rear end fishtailed a bit it was easy to correct for.
There were fewer cars on the road too, so learning by doing on public roads may have been easier.
I still don't get the empty parking lot. My first driving lesson was with a manual and we spent maybe 10 minutes in a parking lot. Then it was out on the road.
But then again, that was with a real driving school (which is requiredby law). The instructor also had clutch and break pedals on his side.
I'll say it again, I am not a fan of parents teaching their kids how to drive. Why? They are just passing on their bad habbits, and it is an endless circle of people that don't know how to drive teaching people how to not drive. There is reason each generation of drivers is getting worse and worse...
But then again, that was with a real driving school (which is requiredby law). The instructor also had clutch and break pedals on his side.
I'll say it again, I am not a fan of parents teaching their kids how to drive. Why? They are just passing on their bad habbits, and it is an endless circle of people that don't know how to drive teaching people how to not drive. There is reason each generation of drivers is getting worse and worse...
- Thread starter
- #59
CORSNING
Tech Sergeant
HOLY CRAP, we've been dissected!
Well, as long as we are here 1972. What a beautiful car.
Well, as long as we are here 1972. What a beautiful car.
- Thread starter
- #60
CORSNING
Tech Sergeant
And then I bring you the Americanized 1982. Different
handling, but still beautiful.......and so is the car.
handling, but still beautiful.......and so is the car.
